Yesterday as I drove along the M62 I started to realise the scale of the 0870 problem. Numerous vans and lorries with 0870 contact numbers on the livery.
I do not need to relate the list of culprits to this group, but there seemed to be hundreds of them.
One worthy of particular comment was an ageing van, with a plumber's name on the side, obviously a one-man-band, had an 0870 number. What on earth is happening, and how compacent and stupid are we in this country?
I made a note of one company - for info they are a company called BID Group Ltd, in Bolton, Lancs - and I sent an email to them, condemning their use of 0870 and politely pointing out the error of their ways. I also included a link to this site.
How about if every contributor to this site took it on themselves to send an email or letter to say 5 companies per week, doing something similar? This could be a fairly standard format letter (more or less) because they would all go to different destinations, and would be relatively quick and easy to do. Even if it had minimal effect, wouldn't it make us all feel better? And it might just help to turn the tide.
The message would need to be non-technical, and in fairly simple language. I hope that someone more literate and knowledgeable than me could be persuaded to put some sort of template together.
I am offering this idea up for comment, because I want to feel I am doing something tangible, and this seems to fit the bill. What do other people think?

One question I have often wondered about. If, as a business, I sign up for an 0870 number (say) to be linked to my normal geographic number, is there any legal penalty if I disclose my normal geographic number as an alternative? In other words, do the providers of these numbers have a contract that basically says "thou shalt NOT disclose your geographic number on pain of transportation for ten years..." or some such draconian penalty. (Actually, it's my understanding that if that were the case, the queue of Poms wanting to leave the sinking ship would stretch half way round the globe....... )

Seriously, though - if there is a legal provision incorporated in the contract for the 0870 number, doesn't that help to explain why some companies, who might otherwise be sympathetic to our concerns, are running scared from disclosing their geographic number? If there is the threat of a lawsuit hanging over you with unspecified damages, doesn't that rather negate your concern for having been led up the garden path by the lies and misrepresentations of the number provider?

I'm unsure if this area has ever been investigated before?

mikeinnc wrote on Nov 9^th, 2006 at 4:27pm:


It will be down to the individual contracts I'm perfectly sure.  I strongly suspect the BBC has massive penalty clauses stopping them from disclosing the underlying geographic numbers for their many 0870 contact centre numbers.

The most abusive 0870 setups always involve routing the calls only to a Voip destination that has no GN equivalent or a new GN series that is set up especially for the purpose that is known only to certain senior directors of the scam organisation involved.

From Barbara:-

Quote:


...and you think that most of them don't get their home phone bills paid as a perk of the job? 

That's half the problem - it's the poor everyday, cash-strapped, ordinary consumer that bears the ultimate cost. Who cares what a 0870 call costs when someone else pays the bill?

Let them eat cake....... 

Can I just (politely) make a small point here please? I started this thread in an attempt to gauge opinion for a suggestion to take some specific and tangible, action, rather than the usual "talking shop" that I think this site has become.
However interesting this discussion, it is not what I set out to achieve, and in fact it kind of proves a point I made in a previous thread about the constant repetition of the same points and details about which most of us are already in agreement. Can I ask again, what other contributors think about the idea of sending emails or letters, making simple and clear points about the use of NGNs, and whether someone would be prepared to put together a draft template, which could be edited to suit? Comments please.

BenDToy wrote on Nov 10^th, 2006 at 12:30am:


Form letters are usually ignored after a while because they are treated as a petition and petitions are usually ignored.  The fact that large numbers of consumers express their opposition to this scam in their own words should carry more weight.  Also the telcos and call centres already know perfectly well why they shouldn't be using these numbers - they don't have to be educated about that.  Its merely a numbers game of how many customers are complaining.  Unless a huge number of customers write in they won't take any notice.  Part of their scam is to pretend that its only a local or national rate number and you are the only customer they have ever had a complaint from on this issue.

But whatever we suggest we will be ignored due to the cynicism of the long term executives of OfcoN like New Labour crony Ed Richards.  Also several New Labour ministers and their senior civil servants were actively complicit in allowing the whole 084/7 call scam industry to be set up in the first place.

Short of manning the picket lines and the burning barricades outside Ofcom's palatial offices on the Thames at Southwark Bridge (not a bad idea I must say and I do hope that Ofcom's sold his soul to the devil former BBC Communications Director is reading this) there's no way of changing their minds because they simply employ an impotent panel of sycophants called the Ofcom Consumer Panel (www.ofcomconsumerpanel.org.uk) to tell them they are doing an excellent job and then totally ignore the views of real consumers.  They also augment this with various carefully manipulated market research surveys with spun questions to prove that customers are quite happy with the 084/7 call centre ripoff.

1. I assume that businesses/organizations are not compelled by law to provide a geo number when requested.
2. I wonder - is there any mileage to be had from a social exclusion route - eg people who are on a tight budget/fixed income try hard to control their living costs.  One of the ways they achieve this is by paying a monthly geo number phone charge for unlimited calls.
3.  If organizations fail to provide a geo no., these people are forced to use a non-geo.
4. This leaves them, along withe the rest of us, in the very vulnerable positon of  making a call, but not knowing beforehand what they will be charged.
5.  Given the awful cost of non-geos, it is a real danger that some people will not call the very organizations which are set up to help them, because they are afraid of the bill.  Consequently, there may be a [b]social exclusionb] issue here.
6.  Therefore, critical orgs like DWP helplines, NHS services, POLICE!!!!!! are not readily accessible to particular socio-economic groups.
7.  Consequently, non-geos for these orgs act as a buffer/retardant to the very people they're meant to help.
8. Re NHS - if people are put off phoning a GP / advice line because of the cost, do these numbers act as a retardant to good health?????  They certainly affect access to health services - and 'access to health services' may well be a tack worth pursuing - that is, without even touching on the issue of accessing the services when you're abroad.

I think the Social Exclusion Unit used to be in the remit of odpm, but has now I believe been shunted to the Cabinet Office.  But maybe DTI is also worth a try.  It's also worth bearing in mind that both of these might be dealing with social exclusion issues, but that they might not have learned joint up writing yet.

If I manage to get some time from somewhere, I will have a bash at a central government level.  Ideally, I would like a law passed which forces all organizations and businesses - especially the Govt - to provide geo numbers on demand.  No - change that - you'd have to phone the flaming non-geo first - the law should force them to display a geo alongside the non-geo.