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GP surgery (Read 30,886 times)
Ricardo
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GP surgery
Nov 14th, 2006 at 10:31pm
 
At last after waiting 15 months the ICO have finally allocated someone to look into my request for the telephone number of a GP surgery.

They have also asked for any other NHS departments that have released their number and also income derived from it. Does anyone know where I can find this information?
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bbb_uk
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 11:02am
 
Ricardo wrote on Nov 14th, 2006 at 10:31pm:
They have also asked for any other NHS departments that have released their number and also income derived from it.
I suggest you read through this FOI section of the forum to see if any are relevant.

I've had a quick scan and noticed the following where FOI was successful with regards to getting their underlying number:

FOI Request - NHS Student Grant Helpline
FOI - Gloucestershire Hospitals NHS Trust

As for the money received then that's a hard one - this recent news article by the BBC revealed that DWP received £268,000 from their 0845 numbers.

I'm not sure what you've put in your FOI but did you mention that calls to 084x/087x can cost upto 40p/min from some mobile networks so at the very least releasing a geographical number alongside would help stop this.  Also, ringing from overseas on 0844 is impossible I believe and some overseas operators won't connect a call to 0845/0870 due to the uncertainty with revenue share that takes place on these numbers.

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Ricardo
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #2 - Nov 15th, 2006 at 11:41pm
 
Thanks for the reply. I had spotted those two links from the FOI index but had hoped for some more. I had already mentioned the points you highlighted about call costs and calling from overseas.
I will post again when I hear anything interesting from them.
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #3 - Nov 16th, 2006 at 9:41am
 
The problem is there hasn't really been a need to do it to something related to the NHS (except surgeries).  Its mostly been other gov depts like police, Inland revenue, DWP, etc.

I'd be inclined to ask ICO why they need that?  I can't see the relevance.  What is really relevant is the surgery is financially gaining from each and every call and so are NEG Plc (assuming it's an 0844 number) so therefore neither want to release an underlying geographical number for fear of losing revenue despite it being at the expense of patients especially those on really low incomes, etc.

If necessary, quote them the following:-

Quote:
Ofcom also believes it is inappropriate for public bodies to use any 08 number exclusively (i.e. without also providing a geographic alternative number) when dealing with people on low incomes or vulnerable groups.


Taken from paragraph 9 from Ofcom's FAQ's on Number Translation Services (ie all 08x numbers) here.
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Ricardo
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #4 - Nov 17th, 2006 at 10:45pm
 
Thanks for the reply. I will make use of your "quote" Will let you know what happens, but don't hold your breath as it may take a bit of time if the ICO's previous form is anything to go by!!
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #5 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 12:51pm
 
You might find this enlightening
Quote:
The revolutionary self-funding telephone service, designed specifically for general practice.

They say here that they have "871 systems sold and counting".

They started off suggesting to surgeries that by changing to an 0870 number the revenue they would get back would pay for the system. The NHS then moved to ban the use of high rate numbers from April 2005. Details here. This, if implemented, effectively screws the financial reasoning behind the practice's decision to purchase.

You might also find this illuminating.
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« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2006 at 12:52pm by muppet »  
 
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Dave
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #6 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 1:15pm
 
muppet wrote on Dec 1st, 2006 at 12:51pm:
They started off suggesting to surgeries that by changing to an 0870 number the revenue they would get back would pay for the system. The NHS then moved to ban the use of high rate numbers from April 2005. Details here. This, if implemented, effectively screws the financial reasoning behind the practice's decision to purchase.

Not really because 0844 numbers generate revenue and with calls that come through during the evening and weekend they will get more revenue than before because of the increased call cost during this period when moving 0870 to 0844.

muppet wrote on Dec 1st, 2006 at 12:51pm:
You might also find this illuminating.

There is a thread on Janice Gregory AM hereWink
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #7 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 2:37pm
 
Sorry, failed to spot the reference to 0844. 0844 is charged by BT at a whole raft of different rates dependent on the following digits but the rates are relatively low compared to 0870 except at weekends.

By way of comparison one local surgery has an 0844477 number which is charged by BT at g6, 5p a minute at all times. On an 0870 it would be 7.908 during the working day (6 a.m to 6 pm), 3.948 evenings 1.493 weekends (all inc VAT)

In my experience surgeries get the bulk of their calls on weekday mornings when the peak rate would apply and most of the surgeries I work with are open from 08:00 or 08:30 to 17:00 or 17:30. The nett effect of switching from 0870 to 0844 for inbound calls is therefore a reduction in revenue for the surgery. The only point I was trying to make was that the practices are not making the revenues that were illustrated to them at the time the sales presentation was made. They made their decision on figures that turned out not to be deliverable.

Surgeries are a particulary juicy target for non-geographic numbers because their inbound call volumes are much higher than their outbound volumes.
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #8 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 5:57pm
 
muppet wrote on Dec 1st, 2006 at 2:37pm:
By way of comparison one local surgery has an 0844477 number which is charged by BT at g6, 5p a minute at all times. On an 0870 it would be 7.908 during the working day (6 a.m to 6 pm), 3.948 evenings 1.493 weekends (all inc VAT)
For the record, 0870 calls are charged at 7p/min daytime, 3.5p/min evening & 1.5p/min weekends.  So you're looking at a maximum of 2p/min more for using an 0870 compared with 0844 47x number during the daytime.
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« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2006 at 5:58pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Heinz
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #9 - Dec 1st, 2006 at 7:39pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 1st, 2006 at 5:57pm:
muppet wrote on Dec 1st, 2006 at 2:37pm:
By way of comparison one local surgery has an 0844477 number which is charged by BT at g6, 5p a minute at all times. On an 0870 it would be 7.908 during the working day (6 a.m to 6 pm), 3.948 evenings 1.493 weekends (all inc VAT)
For the record, 0870 calls are charged at 7p/min daytime, 3.5p/min evening & 1.5p/min weekends.  So you're looking at a maximum of 2p/min more for using an 0870 compared with 0844 47x number during the daytime.

Add another couple of pointless options to the recording which 'answers' every incoming call and that loss of revenue is quickly recovered.
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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #10 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:37pm
 
Quote:
For the record, 0870 calls are charged at 7p/min daytime, 3.5p/min evening & 1.5p/min weekends. So you're looking at a maximum of 2p/min more for using an 0870 compared with 0844 47x number during the daytime.


Also for the record - my pricing was taken straight from BT's online Pricelist.

The majority of 0870's are charged at National NTS except for 087009, 0870185, 0870187 & 0870188 which is charged at g2

The figures I gave are for National NTS and are accurate according to BT's pricing published here.. g2 is a bit less. If you're trying to shoot me down please have the good grace to use the right ammunition! Roll Eyes
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #11 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:47pm
 
muppet wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:37pm:
Also for the record - my pricing was taken straight from BT's online Pricelist.
They are the old prices.

Quote:
If you're trying to shoot me down please have the good grace to use the right ammunition! Roll Eyes
Wasn't trying to shoot you down.  Just pointing out that those rates are the old rates.  From 1st October 2006, BT reduced rates to 0845/0870 numbers.  See here and/or Specialised Number .pdf here (page 30, top-left) where it states calls are 7p/min daytime.  There are exceptions as you point out but I've yet to find a company/organisation using a number that is charged at the lower rate.
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #12 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:56pm
 
Mmmmmm...... Sounds like BT

The Press Release says one thing the published Price List says another. Let's hope their billing systems are more up to date than their Price List.
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Dave
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Re: GP surgery
Reply #13 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 1:36pm
 
muppet wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:56pm:
The Press Release says one thing the published Price List says another. Let's hope their billing systems are more up to date than their Price List.

The Price List is up to date. The page you have linked to shows BT non-discounted rates and apply to those on Light User Scheme and the like. However, the most basic package is BT Together Option 1 and pricing for that is available here. The rates bbb_uk has quoted are on BT Together, which the majority of people are on.

For any charge bands that aren't mentioned on the Together page, non-discounted rates apply. For example, g2 does not appear on BT Together Option 1 pricing page because it costs the same on LUS as it does on BT Together.

BT Pricing.... as clear as mud.
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2006 at 1:38pm by Dave »  
 
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Heinz
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COST OF 0845/0870 CALLS FROM A BT RESIDENTIAL LINE
Reply #14 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 4:07pm
 
If it's not one of BT's annoying time-limited pages, THIS PAGE is far clearer.

Sorry, it was time-limited.

One more try - HERE.


Oh I give up.
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« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2006 at 7:48pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
WWW  
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