SAYNOTO0870.COM - BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07

kk Senior Member Offline Posts: 354 Gender:	BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07 Feb 17^th, 2007 at 8:40am Item on BBC1 morning news program [Breakfast 6am to 10am]. "BBC do use 0870, but do not receive money from using that number." Next at approx 8-55am ... 9-15 ....
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kk

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #1 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 9:16am

This site named in later item. Email them.

Item again at 9-23am to 9-30am

Ed Night from Ofcom on. No mention of 0845, 0844, 0871

"This program uses 0870, but unlike others, 0870 is cheap when you ring this program .... " ??

" ....... some organisations use 0870 that cost a lot, but we (BBC) use low cost 0870 numbers ..... " ??

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« Last Edit: Feb 17^th, 2007 at 9:47am by kk »

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bbb_uk

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #2 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 9:47am

A video now appears on their news website, see here.

For new visitors to this site, I'd like to just let you know that despite the BBC news video stating 0870 numbers, companies can make money from other numbers beginning 0844, 0845 and 0871 as well, as mentioned by kk above.

The difference is that Ofcom are only doing something about 0870 numbers from February 2008 (not January as reported by the BBC).

Ofcom are not doing anything about 0844 and 0845 numbers for the next few years. However, 0871 numbers used by some companies like EasyJet, etc will be regulated, albeit only very slightly regulated, by ICSTIS.

Essentially, calls to numbers beginning 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871 are premium rate because they can cost more (and most of the time do) than a call to a normal geographical number (those beginning 01 or 02) and in most cases are excluded from any inclusive price plan you may have with your landline and/or mobile provider. The main differences between these (stealth) premium rate numbers and numbers beginning 09x is that numbers beginning 09x are regulated and companies using these numbers are prohibited from charging you whilst keeping you in a queue.

However, numbers beginning 0844, 0845, 0870 and 0871 are not regulated and as such this is why they are popular with companies like BA, Sky, Virgin, and government departments. Companies/government departments using these numbers can, and often do, receive money every minute you are held in a queue.

I use the word "stealth" premium rate because most consumers think these are just normal calls and the company being called isn't earning money.

The cost of 0844 numbers vary and can cost upto 5p/min from a BT landline. However, other telephone providers may charge more and in some cases it can cost upto around 40p/min to call from some mobile networks/tariffs.

The cost of 0845 numbers can cost upto 3p/min from a BT landline. However, other telephone providers generally charge more. For example, NTL:Telewest (now known as VirginMedia) charge upto 5p/min. Again, the cost of calling from some mobile networks/tariffs can cost significantly more than this.

The cost of 0870 numbers can cost upto 8p/min from a BT landline. However, other telephone providers generally charge more. For example, NTL:Telewest (now known as VirginMedia) charge upto 10p/min. Again, the cost of calling from some mobile networks/tariffs can cost significantly more than this.

The cost of 0871 numbers cost upto 10p/min from a BT landline. However, other telephone providers may charge more. Again, the cost of calling from some mobile networks/tariffs can cost significantly more than this.

These numbers are frequently marketed as being either 'local rate', 'lo-call' or 'national rate'. This is misleading but at this time Ofcom don't appear to be doing anything to stop this.

More information here.

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« Last Edit: Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:32am by bbb_uk »

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kk Senior Member Offline Posts: 354 Gender:	Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07 Reply #3 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:03am Thanks for the link, bbb_uk. The BBC clip, linked above, does not contain the studio discussion and the guest from “Which” etc and emails sent to the program. (a transcript of this part would be of use) The studio comments (quoted in part above) are manifestly false.
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brian47

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #4 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:14am

I was disappointed that the BBC item did not respond to the statement by British Airways that their use of the 0870 number contributed to the cost of the call centres. Whilst this is obviously true, they couuld have asked why BA use Tollfree numbers in the USA where I think they would lose customers. I am currently planning a one off holiday of a lifetime holiday later this year to Japan and I have given up the idea of using our national carrier for that reason (12 minutes on a 0870 number) plus their other money grabbing intiatives like the £120 baggage charge.
By the way, the BBC also said that whilst they did not get anything from their 0870 number it would only cost one and halfpence a minute if you called this morning, Saturday 17th. Is that correct?

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bbb_uk

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #5 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 11:36am

brian47 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:14am:

..the BBC also said that whilst they did not get anything from their 0870 number it would only cost one and halfpence a minute if you called this morning, Saturday 17th. Is that correct?

Yes. 0870 numbers at a weekend will cost 1.5p/min from a BT landline (subject to a call connection fee of 3p). As always, calls from other providers may vary.

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Heinz Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,362 Essex	Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07 Reply #6 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 12:05pm brian47 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:14am: By the way, the BBC also said that whilst they did not get anything from their 0870 number it would only cost one and halfpence a minute if you called this morning, Saturday 17th. Is that correct? Yes and, remarkably, BT is cheapest for such calls at weekends.
Back to top	After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015 IP Logged

lompos Supreme Member Offline Posts: 791	Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07 Reply #7 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 6:01pm Quote: Yes and, remarkably, BT is cheapest for such calls at weekends. Not quite, it depends on the length of the call. The call charge up to 1 hour for BT Together Option 1 customers at weekends is 5.5p + the 3p call connection fee.
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lompos Supreme Member Offline Posts: 791	Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07 Reply #8 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 6:24pm sorry, I meant to say: "call charge to 01/02 numbers numbers from landlines ....." To 0870 numbers at weekends BT is the cheapest at 1.5p/min.
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Heinz

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #9 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:30pm

lompos wrote on Feb 17^th, 2007 at 6:01pm:

Not quite, it depends on the length of the call. The call charge up to 1 hour for BT Together Option 1 customers at weekends is 5.5p + the 3p call connection fee.

BT's charge for UK 01/02 calls evenings and weekends is, indeed, 5½p for up to an hour. Such calls are not, however, subject to the additional 3p 'call set-up fee'.

BT's prices for 0870 calls are subject to the 3p 'call set-up fee' so, when they are cheapest, their charges are:

Evenings
3p 'call set-up fee' + 3½p/min

Weekends
3p 'call set-up fee' + 1½p/min

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« Last Edit: Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:33pm by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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Dave

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #10 - Feb 17^th, 2007 at 10:51pm

The revenue from British Airways apparently goes towards the cost of UK call centres. So does this mean that no revenue means non-UK call centres? And bearing in mind that the revenue is proportional to the length of the call, does this mean that when call lengths get longer that the cost of running the call centre has gone up? Of course not!

I don't know about BA, BS more like!

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #11 - Feb 19^th, 2007 at 10:24am

bbb_uk wrote on Feb 17^th, 2007 at 9:47am:

The difference is that Ofcom are only doing something about 0870 numbers from February 2008 (not January as reported by the BBC).

Where has February 2008 come from?

The statement (see here) makes no mention of February 2008. But if you search for "January 2008" it will find two results both of which are in connection to the changes.

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #12 - Feb 19^th, 2007 at 1:19pm

Dave wrote on Feb 19^th, 2007 at 10:24am:

Where has February 2008 come from?

The statement (see here) makes no mention of February 2008. But if you search for "January 2008" it will find two results both of which are in connection to the changes.

It was originally 28th January or something and it was decided to postpone until 1st February 2008 just for accounting purposes only.

It was mentioned in an NTS Focus group minutes posted by idb - see here.

Quote:

Following discussion at the previous NTS Focus Group in relation to the date of effect of the 0870 reforms, there had been some confusion about the agreed date. The official date of effect was 18 months from the date of publication of the Numbering Statement – this would be 28 th January 2008. However, there had been a suggestion that the date of effect/implementation should be rounded up or down to coincide with the nearest start of the month. Several attendees had favoured 1 st February in order to avoid the need for special billing arrangements resulting from a changeover at a time other than a month end. No objections to this proposal were raised, however Andrew Wileman suggested that views were sought from non-attendees prior to the proposal being accepted.

New Action Sep06_01: Objections to the proposal that the 0870 reforms should commence on 1st February 2008 to be communicated to the chair by 31 st October

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Re: BBC1 "Breakfast" Sat 17 Feb 07
Reply #13 - Feb 19^th, 2007 at 1:30pm

bbb_uk wrote on Feb 19^th, 2007 at 1:19pm:

It was originally 28th January or something and it was decided to postpone until 1st February 2008 just for accounting purposes only.

Thanks bbb_uk.

The minutes from the 7th November 2006 meeting here show that they accepted the postponement of the changes.

Quote:

Action Sep06_01: Objections to the proposal that the 0870 reforms should commence on 1st February 2008 to be communicated to the chair by 31 st October 2006. Discharged – Andrew Wileman confirmed that no objections had been raised. Attendees asked that this action point be clarified to reflect the fact that it referred to the timing consideration only, and did not relate to acceptance of general principles.

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