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This site and NGDs (Read 31,894 times)
NGMsGhost
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #15 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:39pm
 
catcoddler wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:34pm:
I like the idea of the member who suggested the get-your-own-back technique of giving orgs and co.s your own non geo number to call you on.  Though of course I would never do that .......


If you do that you unfortunately still profit the revolting telecoms middlemen who always hang on to the majority of the call price on any NGN call and only at best pass 40% or so on to the called party.  You receive a much lower percentage of the call price than this though if you only have a low volume 084/7 number.
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:40pm by NGMsGhost »  

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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #16 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:40pm
 
I never said it was, nor was I referring to any one posting in particular. I was referring to the general attitude as perceived by a brand new user. I just don't understand why anyone contributing to this forum (and this topic in particular) would bother arguing about the whys and where-fores of these adverts. Surely we are all here because we think these numbers are economically unfair and ethically wrong. The very presence of an advert selling non-geographics on a site dedicated to the abolition of them makes my head spin. It would be funny if it wasn't so wrong.
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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #17 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:48pm
 
Thanks Ghost. I mean no offence to anyone. We are all entitled o our views. However, some of the views expressed seem to be at odds with the means they are using to express them! Either we want non-geographics gone or we don't. See y'all
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NGMsGhost
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #18 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 6:00pm
 
scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:48pm:
Thanks Ghost. I mean no offence to anyone. We are all entitled o our views. However, some of the views expressed seem to be at odds with the means they are using to express them! Either we want non-geographics gone or we don't. See y'all


Some people on this web forum only have a very narrow and blinkered self interest sadly scatman and they then seem surprised when the purveyors of 084/7 numbers also exploit them with a similar ethically lacking and selfish form of narrow self interest.

Quite a few posters on this website only seem to care about avoiding 084/7 numbers, because they call a lot of them, and seem to be utterly mystified by the suggestion that it is wholly inappropriate for this website to also be involved in deriving income from other equally  dubious forms of commercial practice.
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:39pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Dave
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #19 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 8:57pm
 
scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:17pm:
... However none of the responses address the issue I raised before. That is that there must be some way of filtering out inappropriate adverts for sites with a particular focus. I repeat the religeon/porn example. If Google or any other ad provider is so all powerful that they can overide the needs of the site owner, then this whole site is pointless. ...

And why must there be anything? For quite obvious reasons, porn ads an be barred. So you can hardly bring them into the debate.

scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:17pm:
Edited:
NGMsGhost disagrees with the views expressed by andy9 and Heinz and considers that this website is wrong for promoting "products which are morally and ethically inconsistent with the aims of this site".

… I cannot see how people can with a clear conscience lobby against the immorality of businesses having hidden premium rate numbers while this site then tries to derive an income from displaying click thru banner ads to the firms that sell them.  Also it has been explained before that Google does have a facility to block out appropriate ad banner links.  However the site owner has chosen not to make use of this.

NGMsGhost, it has been mentioned that the exorbitant termination charges by mobile networks are infact a 0870-type rip-off and that calls to them should be charged at geographical rates and that the receiver should pay to receive calls as in the US. Do you agree with this and do you use a mobile? It is not always possible to avoid those things we object to.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2007 at 5:16pm by Dave »  
 
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bbb_uk
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #20 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 9:17pm
 
The site admin has explained banner ads in this thread.

Basically, this site does cost money to run and costs more money to run now than it did when first set up due to increase in visitors.

Yes - in a perfect world there would be no adverts but we don't all live in a perfect world.  The technology is called "google adsense" or something and works by taking a look at what we discuss on the website and displaying adverts related to what we're discussing.

This is where the problem begins because we discuss 084/087 so therefore we get adverts about 084/087.  The site admin has managed to filter some things out but even if it was possible to filter all adverts concerning 084/087, then the running costs of this site would increase simply because no adverts (or very few) would likely be displayed because we mostly discuss is 084/087.  The site admin has already stated he already has to pay towards the costs of running the site but without adverts then there would be the full running costs of the site to pay.

Now personally speaking, if I was the admin and everyone wanted an ad-free site then I would introduce some other way of funding the running costs of the site.  I like to think I'm a generous person but it comes a point when I would like some way of recovering at least some of the costs of running the site - not to make a profit - just try to recover some of the costs of running the site.

If you don't like the adverts, etc then why take any notice or why even visit the site?  The problem is because everyone wants the site to remain (for obvious reasons) and ad-free, then someone please explain to me how it could be funded and would anyone else go for it?

How about the Site admin introduces sign-up fees and/or restricts the database/forum to only those members that have paid a sign-up fee or something?

Other non 084/0870 adverts have been on this forum but there is nearly always someone complaining of them as well.  Regardless of what the site admin does to try to recover some of the costs of the site, no one will ever be happy!

I use this site to save me money and it has/does save me a fortune.  If it didn't exist then I would be paying more so as a result I voluntarily contribute to this site.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2007 at 5:54am by bbb_uk »  
 
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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #21 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 7:34am
 
I understand what you are saying and that of course the site has to be funded. It is a sad fact of life that many fewer people would access this site if they had to pay to do so. This is principally a public service site for people who think NGNs are wrong. You say that the choice of advert is down to Google, and I understand the logic of what they are doing. However, it should be possible to tell Google that this method of selection is flawed. If this were a site promoting the use of say, low energy light bulbs and other energy saving devices, you would welcome adverts from people who made them not from people trying to sell conventional energy inefficient products. The line of logic Google seems to be following allows any number of ridiculous situations to arise. For instance, a forum which talks about anti-smoking issues could attract cigarette ads, a forum which talks about anti-fox hunting issues could attract adverts for saddles and hunting dress. I know nothing of the technology Google adsense uses, but I find it very hard to believe that by consulting with Google, some means could not be found to deal with this anomaly. If we have to choose between a site with these ads, and no site at all I have to say it is better to have the site. My only point is that when a new user comes to the site, almost the first thing they see is an ad promoting the one thing they have come to it to avoid. Few people will bother to ask why and will simply use the service of the site and leave contributing nothing. This is very damaging to the credibility of the site and devalues it's achievements. I am just saying that efforts need to be made to eradicate this.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #22 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 9:13am
 
scatman wrote on Feb 28th, 2007 at 7:34am:
My only point is that when a new user comes to the site, almost the first thing they see is an ad promoting the one thing they have come to it to avoid. Few people will bother to ask why and will simply use the service of the site and leave contributing nothing. This is very damaging to the credibility of the site and devalues it's achievements. I am just saying that efforts need to be made to eradicate this.


Scatman,

It is good to hear from someone who feels exactly as I do on these issues and feels that the site management badly lets itself down by being prepared to show adverts from anywhere, including 084/7 number vending merchants, and also the equally suspect GrabAGrand strange elottery promoting ad banners.  Both the subject matter of GrabAGrand and the marketing approach used would be bound to look like an unethical scam to many people who consider 084/7 numbers to be a scam.  I have no problem with the prominent top of the page web link to www.energlinx.com as they offer a useful and accurate gas and electricty switching site likely to appeal to and be ethically in tune with most visitors to this site.

I believe Google AdSense can be far more finely tuned to cut out certain types of advertisement but the site owner seems to have neither the inclination or the ethical sensitivity to realise that this is necessary.  This is why we end up with prominent ads for people like 0870Advice, a firm actually dedicated to selling yet more of these numbers to the world at large. Shocked Cry

Scatman all I can say is that some of the regular users and moderators of this site do not unfortunately seem to share our ethical sensibilties and have the very narrow blinkers on that say that as long as the site turns out 084/7 number alternatives it doesn't matter what other conflicts of interest take place.  But rest assured there are several other vigorous anti 084/7 campaigners who feel just as we do about these inappropriate advertisement links on this website and who in a number of cases have largely or wholly terminated their participation in the site as a result of their concerns.
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bill
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Site funding
Reply #23 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:09pm
 
Everyone seems to have missed the irony of the situation.

Because of the crude 'flawed' means by which Google AdSense chooses 'suitable' adverts, adverts for companies which promote NGNs appear on this site.

So, companies which promote NGNs pay to keep this anti-NGNs site alive!

I think that is highly amusing and truly wonderful!  (no, that comment is not meant to be sarcastic)
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:26pm by bill »  
 
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bbb_uk
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #24 - Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:18pm
 
bill wrote on Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:09pm:
Because of the crude 'flawed' means by which Google AdSense chooses 'suitable' adverts, adverts for companies which promote NGNs appear on this site.

So, companies which promote NGNs pay to keep this anti-NGNs site alive!
Unfortunately it's true.

It's only 'flawed' in this case because of what this site is about.  However, all (must be nearly all now) other websites funded this way then it isn't a problem.

Would everyone like the site admin to start charging by other means instead?  Maybe a sign-up fee as mentioned earlier and to block non fee members access to the forum/database?  If he was that way inclined then he would definitely make an actual profit from it because although many people post on this forum - many, many more just search for alternatives from the database.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2007 at 1:20pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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