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trueCall - what do people think? (Read 27,910 times)
jrawle
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trueCall - what do people think?
Oct 22nd, 2008 at 10:18am
 
Saw this today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7682111.stm

Website here:
http://www.truecall.co.uk/

I don't quite see the point of it. If the call is unidentified, you have to listen to it at some stage to determine if it's a genuine call. If this device bars withheld/international/unknown numbers, there's still a chance those will be genuine calls. I can't see much it does that can't be done with caller display.

I didn't realise pre-recorded messages were exempt from TPS. That explains why I've been getting those occasionally. At least they are easy to deal with, though - I just hang up immediately!

It says there will eventually be a blacklist that it downloads via an internal modem - I hope it's not going to be on an 0871 number!
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #1 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 4:05pm
 
Two points to make initially.

Firstly, this is not the answer to Silent Calls. It is a device that some might find useful in their home.

Secondly, this is not strictly anything to do with saynoto0870. If a blacklist is to be provided, which is a questionable proposition anyway, there is no suggestion as to how it may be funded. Whilst a properly declared premium rate number could provide a simple way of charging for distribution, that has not as yet been suggested.

Apart from the blacklist (which could be evaded by withholding CLI), CLI is only used to identify listed known callers, who bypass the system. All other callers are asked to identify themselves.

If no identification is provided the call is dropped immediately. This would deal with Silent Calls and any caller who would not want to waste their time trying to get through. If an identification is provided, then this is offered. If the user does not wish to accept the call, they are not connected to the caller.

This is very different from using caller display as it introduces the additional step of providing an unrecognised caller with the chance to identify themselves. One might expect that many callers who do not expect to get through will hang up at this stage, whereas "genuine" callers will hopefully not be inconvenienced by the delay caused by the screening process.

I think that TrueCall is fairly described as being nothing more than having calls screened by an automated PA, but with the option for known callers to get straight through. As such, I think that many will find it valuable.

It is not the answer to the problem of Silent Calls as it is not distributed free of charge to every UK household. It does however have many other benefits.


There is much confusion about the regulations covering "cold calling". The Lib Dems provide one recent example, although they should have known better!

Pre-recorded marketing messages are not "exempt" from the TPS, they are prohibited without explicit consent. A failure to register with the TPS amounts to consent to receipt of attended marketing calls (unless explicitly withdrawn from any company). Recorded messages can only be played to those who give explicit consent.

Registration with the TPS is actually irrelevant in principle to the issue of recorded messages, as it is to Silent Calls. There is a case for the idea that many cold callers will not waste their time ringing TPS-registered numbers as they are unlikely to be successful. Registration may therefore exclude one from the lists used by those who may make Silent Calls or use recorded marketing messages.

With a very high proportion of the population now registered however, unsolicited cold calling is rarely worthwhile at all if one only calls non-registered numbers. As saturation is being reached, worthy organisations and those who behave politely and properly are being denied use of telemarketing as a valid channel whereas the cowboys and those outside the scope of UK (and EU) regulation continue to exploit it.

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Kiwi_g
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #2 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 6:27pm
 
There seems to be another problem.  I'm registered with the TPS but after receiving a market research call and then trying to register a complaint with the TPS, I find that this type of call is not covered and so I'm unable to stop it.

Do any more knowledgeable members of this forum have any ideas for stopping this type of call?
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jrawle
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #3 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 9:16pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Oct 22nd, 2008 at 4:05pm:
Apart from the blacklist (which could be evaded by withholding CLI), CLI is only used to identify listed known callers, who bypass the system. All other callers are asked to identify themselves.


This is what I couldn't find out. How are they asked to identify themselves? If they have to speak their name, they can say "Debt Consolidation Ltd" or whatever, as the box won't have the intellegence to know they are unwanted, unlike a real PA. If they have to enter their number so it can be stored or presented to the person receiving the call, what's to stop them entering a bogus number?

Going even further off-topic, I suspect I receive cold calls and automated messages because my number was previously allocated to someone else, and he had a relationship with the companies concerned. However, I've never had any dealings with those companies. Are they therefore breaking the regulations by calling me?
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #4 - Oct 23rd, 2008 at 12:33am
 
jrawle wrote on Oct 22nd, 2008 at 9:16pm:
they can say "Debt Consolidation Ltd" or whatever, as the box won't have the intelligence to know they are unwanted, unlike a real PA.

A fair point. If they are ringing solely to annoy you, they could say anything false they think is likely to make you want to take the call when you hear their message. That would however be a criminal act. Unless you fall for it and decide to accept the call, they would not have the satisfaction of hearing your reaction.

TrueCall does not offer the intelligence of a real PA. You have to supply this yourself to deal with those who are determined to get through at any cost. If we are talking about marketing calls, you would have to be a fairly valuable potential customer for someone to think it worthwhile to risk being screened-out and then face the fact that you took the call having been deceived, rather than moving on to their next call. TrueCall does not offer real protection against this scenario; those in a unique position to award highly lucrative contracts are advised to employ an intelligent PA.


jrawle wrote on Oct 22nd, 2008 at 9:16pm:
… my number was previously allocated to someone else, and he had a relationship with the companies concerned. … Are they therefore breaking the regulations by calling me?

Strictly speaking, yes they are.

As with any other caller, you may wish to grant them one call in case your predecessor failed to advise them of his new number. If you take the first opportunity to explain that you are not Mr Gone-away and you do not wish them to call again, they would be breaking the regulations by calling again, even if you were not registered with the TPS.


Kiwi_g wrote on Oct 22nd, 2008 at 6:27pm:
I'm registered with the TPS but after receiving a market research call and then trying to register a complaint with the TPS, I find that this type of call is not covered and so I'm unable to stop it.

Firstly, complaints cannot be made to Telephone Preference Service Ltd, which is an arm of the Direct Marketing Industry. It administers the list of registered numbers and can only encourage its subscribers to buy the latest update, which they are required to do every 28 days, and to use it.

It is the Information Commissioner's Office that has the powers to take action against abusers and can receive full formal complaints.

(TPS Ltd does keep a list of those who are alleged to have broken the rules and sends it to the ICO once a quarter. This could be helpful to the ICO in the context of investigating a complaint.)

Genuine market research calls are not covered by the TPS or any other prohibitive regulation. For this reason many calls with a direct marketing purpose are falsely presented as if they were market research. Clear evidence of this misrepresentation is needed before action can be taken, as there are genuine market and opinion research firms.

A genuine research firm will be ready to note your unwillingness to participate and would be unlikely to waste their time and risk damaging their valuable reputation by contacting you again. They would be likely to be members of The Market Research Society, which enforces professional standards and handles complaints.


None of this is strictly within the scope of saynoto0870, however as my nickname indicates that I have some experience of the issues in this area, I hope I am able to help.
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irrelevant
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #5 - Oct 23rd, 2008 at 11:50pm
 
It's nothing particularly revolutionary.  Just existing technology packaged up into a user-friendly box.

I run asterisk (open-source PBX ) at home, on a little PC I got free off freecycle.  I've got a blacklist set up that I add pests to manually, but there are scripts available to bar calls based on looking up the number in various online databases.  It's also fairly easy to set up different ways of call screening for withheld callers.

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trevormc
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #6 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 11:02am
 
Just recently installed trueCall  It does what it says on the tin they are very helpful and sent it to me programed to receive stared numbers only (at my request) I have subsequently programed my star list the result being friends & family etc. get through but no more press 5 for the famous free holidays etc.
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jrawle
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #7 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 1:55pm
 
trevormc wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 11:02am:
I have subsequently programed my star list the result being friends & family etc. get through but no more press 5 for the famous free holidays etc.    

How about callers who have a genuine reason to call you, but aren't (yet) on your list? Have they managed to negotiate the system OK?

Another potential issue I can see with the system is that it will take calls when I'm out, meaning that the caller has to pay for them (we could get into the answerphone debate again here!) Would that also happen to callers on the star list, or does the phone just keep ringing for them until you answer?
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #8 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 2:36pm
 
jrawle wrote on Nov 19th, 2008 at 1:55pm:
… does the phone just keep ringing for them until you answer?

Having been involved in heavy chats about the features, I can address this one, although it is important to hear from trevormc about how unrecognised genuine callers feel about having to identify themselves to a machine. One option is to monitor calls as they are answered automatically, so one can immediately pick up on hearing a hesitant relative react in surprise or an angry friend swear in disgust.

The answering machine facility can be set to cut in after a defined number of rings or turned off. Similarly the whole machine can be turned off when one is going out. Nobody has yet thought of a human-proof answer to the problem of the machine being unable to know if you go out and forget to set it accordingly.

This is a classic problem with much home-based technology and suggestions about how this could best be addressed would, I am sure, be welcomed. I never forget to set my alarm when going out, so the control panel carries a hand-written checklist to remind me of things I am likely to have forgotten - but do I always read it?

Without going back to answerphones in general, Truecall is a very particular piece of sophisticated technology. Those who choose to use it need to think about the implications before doing so, and put in some effort to to ensure that it is configured to meet their needs. To be fair to the designers, they have done all they can to make this as easy as possible, without cutting back on advanced features for those willing and able to make the effort to use them.
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« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2008 at 2:44pm by Dave »  
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trevormc
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #9 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 2:37pm
 
The Star list is capable of holding 500 numbers hopefully I've got everybody on it, you can paste from word list.
The answerphone feature is programmable I have set mine to 25secs so Star callers can hang up at no charge other callers simply get ring tone & no answer machine. Hope this answers your question.      
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trevormc
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #10 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 2:53pm
 
Sorry SilentCallsVictim we were posting at the same time callers not on my Star list only get ring tone and are not asked to whisper It is set this way because of numerous Time share calls, by the way I have never had Time share the number i was allocated by BT is on an international date base needles to say BT aren't interested they say they are not able to block international calls
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #11 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 3:27pm
 
Trevormc,

You seem to be happy so I am reluctant to challenge you, please forgive me as I do so.

You seem to suggest that unstarred callers cannot get through to you at all. This would include those you know calling from a payphone or some other unknown location. I would not wish you to be surprised at missing an important or urgent call from someone who is perhaps in distress, or perhaps from the emergency services.

If you are aware of this risk and are content, then accept my apologies for raising the point, although it may be of use to others. Whilst the "whisper" feature can be abused, it provides the means of enabling important calls from unknown or withheld CLI to get through.
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trevormc
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2008 at 3:46pm
 
Thanx for your concern SilentCallsVictim but I also have a voip number with answer phone and mobile with the same. Maybe if the nuisance callers get fed up in the future i will be able to alter my settings.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #13 - Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:07pm
 
A new development in the TrueCall story - 5 celebrity endorsements, some free advertising on the BBC and gaining a potentially helpful business partner, see - http://www.bbc.co.uk/dragonsden/entrepreneurs/stevesmith.shtml.

I am advised that this could lead on to some discussion of the subject of nuisance telephone calls with a highly suitable interviewer, on BBC1 next Friday evening (24 July) at 22:35.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: trueCall - what do people think?
Reply #14 - Jul 25th, 2009 at 2:49am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:07pm:
I am advised that this could lead on to some discussion of the subject of nuisance telephone calls with a highly suitable interviewer, on BBC1 next Friday evening (24 July) at 22:35.

Sadly the plan to present Jonathan Ross with a TrueCall device to help him avoid unwanted telephone calls had to be abandoned in favour of some stripey socks. This perhaps shows that there are limits to his capacity to take a joke against himself.

Those who are quick to characterise people from their role may be interested to read this item - DMA contact centre chairman John Price defends his role in call blocker lauded on Dragons' Den.
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