Is it the case that the new legislation for 0870 numbers is nothing more than guidance acted upon by BT and ignored by everyone else?

As a virgin media landline cusomer and a customer of several mobile operators, I have not received any notification that any have any intention of reducing their prices to call 0870 numbers.

I am not aware of any announcement, even by BT, having been made with only a week to go.

I am sure that we will be watching the media closely over the coming days. Furthermore, I suspect that every telephone operator will be watching each other as well. The phrase "Say No to 0870" will be ringing around.

noelster wrote on Jul 27^th, 2009 at 9:49am:


Correct, as one of the members on this forum (I can not remember which one) rightly pointed out to me, they are not free but 'inclusive'

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 27^th, 2009 at 10:35am:


The cheapest 24/7 call bundle was £4.85p a month when they made the announcement and its since gone up £1.20p a year.Plus no increases have been made to the free weekend,and free evening and weekend call bundles 0845/0870 calls were included at no increase in  cost to the call  bundles.

Noels example in his link  is flawed because he fails to take in account the bundle included exclusive 24/7 calls to 01/02/03 numbers,200 inclusive texts,etc and still does, so it could be argued the inclusion of the 0845/0870 calls cost next to nothing.

Given VM track record over increasing cost of calls to 0844 dont hold your breath on 0870 going down yet.

Noel, you make some interesting points and raise valid concerns.

It appears that BT is keen to move away from charging for calls, by offering inclusive packages. The relative drop in package prices over the increase in charges for calls that are covered by them sends a very clear message. Assuming fair pricing, inclusive packages would be seen by many as a sensible option as they would (in general) pay the same for their telephone service each quarter, regardless of how many calls they had made. I accept that not all would see it that way, but the certainty would be a benefit to many.

Similarly, the certainty of regular predictable revenue is an enormous benefit to any business. Call plan fees are paid in advance whereas call charges are collected in arrears. Call plans also have a minimum contract period. One can argue over whether these factors enable BT to set the prices lower than they would be otherwise, or whether they enable it to make more profit - only an economist with all the relevant data would be able to settle that argument (three economists would give you at least four different answers).

Inevitably the price paid for the package depends on what is included and it must be set so that there are just as many losers as winners (all things being equal) for BT to maintain the same level of revenue (although the world is never quite that simple). Those who rarely use their home telephone during the day would be likely to remain on the unlimited weekends, or evenings and weekends, plans for fairly obvious reasons.

BT is quite wrong to misrepresent the position regarding revenue sharing numbers (where the premium has to be paid for somehow). The situation with 0870 will however be dramatically changing from next weekend and so focus must be moved away from that (at least so far as BT is concerned if our well-grounded assumptions are correct). Little is achieved by re-fighting battles from last January.

One may have opinions on whether inclusive packages are a good or bad thing in principle, and perhaps find issues in the way that they are priced and promoted. I cannot myself see an important and clear issue here.

In the short term, the focus must now be on VirginMedia, the other landline providers and the Mobile companies, in respect of whether they are going to profiteer on 0870 calls.

The situation with 0844 continues unchanged.

0845 continues to be a mess, which may get better or worse over the coming months as Ofcom gets involved.

noelster wrote on Jul 28^th, 2009 at 12:09am:

Welcome to the forum noelster.

All 0844/0845/0871 (and 0870 upto 31 July) are regulated such that BT only keeps a small proportion of retail call charges. The rest is passed to the telephone companies of the respective numbers. For example, 0844 477 numbers which are used by many NHS GPs are provided by Opal Telecom, part of Talk Talk, so it gets a huge slice of the call charges.

This regulation, known as the "NTS Condition" means that the outpayments are relative to BT's retail charges. So when BT varies its charges, the amount they get changes (they are subject to "revenue uncertainty") and so they often complain when this happens and their share goes down.

To address the revenue uncertainty on 0845 and 0870 ranges, 0844 and 0871 were introduced. The call rate from a BT landline is set by the telephone company that operates the respective range. So for 0844 477 numbers, it is Opal Telecom that specifies BT charges 5 pence per minute. They also specify whether to opt in or out of BT's discount schemes. Most choose to opt out.

With the NTS Condition applying on 0844/0871 numbers, the providers of these numbers can therefore control the amount of revenue they get.

So the question of why 0844 numbers remain as they are has nothing to do with BT. It is down to the providers of these numbers who operate them on behalf of their customers (companies, charities and public services).

The Virgin Media position has been clarified for the benefit of a BBC Radio 5 live news broadcast tomorrow morning:

Quote:


There is no comment on whether or not the prominence given to the way in which Virgin Media presents its charges for calls to 0870 numbers is compliant with Ofcom's regulations. That could be one for the lawyers. Ofcom's new regulations do not specify charges, so the Virgin Media 0870 charges cannot be complaint with Ofcom's new regulations, as they are not covered by them.

For the record (subject to anyone else having a better capacity for reading the Virgin Media Price List) the differential is as follows, in respect of the main calling plans.

Call to 01/02/03 number (whilst calling plan is in effect): 0p

Call to 01/02/03 number (at any other time): Call Connection fee of 8.8p + 5.39 pence per minute

Call to 0870 number at any time: Call Connection fee of 9.79p + 9.79 pence per minute

A 10-minute call to the DVLA would cost £1.08, vs zero for a 03 number in a call plan, or £0.63 outside.

derrick wrote on Jul 31^st, 2009 at 11:57am:

5p total from a BT line via the 18185 prefix, that is.