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03 not as good as you think! (Read 33,553 times)
isdoo
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #15 - Dec 9th, 2014 at 11:44am
 
tara wrote on Dec 5th, 2014 at 1:13pm:
Hello guys.  Thanks for all your comments.  Unfortunately, as you might expect (since I'm writing here) I have BT Broadband (BT Infinity to be precise), otherwise BT Home Server would have been ideal (probably). 

Anyway, I'm sure there are good reasons for 03xx numbers, and for why operators like 1899 can't offer them.  But isn't this the point?  What I think we need to do is to start finding out (new) numbers (ie, 01/02) that can be used instead of 03 numbers...  The existing Saynoto0870.com website now has a heading 01/02/03.  Noooooooo!! It should remain 01/02 and then have a separate column (or something similar) for 03, since these are (really) like the old 0845 numbers.  And 0845 numbers were never included in the 01/02 column.  Just because some organisation says that 03 numbers are "like landlines" do we have to believe it?  They're not like landlines to me -- since I'm now being charged so much for them.

Separating the 03 numbers from 01/02 will be a start, but I do wonder if we don't need to complain, too, to these companies that are listing them -- that is, we need them to list alternative 01/02 numbers too.  Just as before with 0845/ 0870 numbers. Companies like Miele have now removed all their 01/02 numbers and I worry that now 03 numbers have been cleverly categorised as "the same as a landline number" we will be left we having to pay the extra charges for our telephone use.  That'll be a 200% increase in my monthly phone bill!   


03 are never like 0845 - that is nonsense!

03 are great and should be encouraged.

if you can't dial them, then get a mobile PAYG or contract and then you can pay the same as 01 or 02 numbers - simples!


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bigjohn
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #16 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 4:18am
 
Tara will be pleased to know that 18185 now allow access to 03 numbers again. Smiley
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #17 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 12:21pm
 
bigjohn wrote on Dec 19th, 2014 at 4:18am:
Tara will be pleased to know that 18185 now allow access to 03 numbers again. Smiley



As do 1899 and 18866.


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tara
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #18 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 5:48pm
 
mmm, I can understand you guys don't likes 08xx numbers etc etc etc.  But let's not get technical about this.  All I'm talking about is the consequence to some one (me, if you like) of companies moving to 0330 numbers.   Specifically -- the move to 0330 only numbers means that some people will suffer (as far as I can see).   

Is the issue only with me since I use the 1899 service?  It's hard to know what a lot of other recommended [see: http://callchecker.moneysavingexpert.com/ukcallchecker/landline/daytime/bt/easy ]  do charge, since 03 numbers are not specifically mentioned.   If other providers include 0330 numbers in an 0p per minutes package then *please* let me know who!  However, I suspect that 0330 number are not included with any of these cheaper providers because they are not routed the same as 01/02 numbers. 

Anyway, perhaps I should have said for technical correctness that 03 numbers are not 01/02 numbers; rather than saying they were a bit like 08xx number? 

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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #19 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 4:21am
 
tara wrote on Dec 19th, 2014 at 5:48pm:
mmm, I can understand you guys don't likes 08xx numbers etc etc etc.  But let's not get technical about this.  All I'm talking about is the consequence to some one (me, if you like) of companies moving to 0330 numbers.   Specifically -- the move to 0330 only numbers means that some people will suffer (as far as I can see).   

Is the issue only with me since I use the 1899 service?  It's hard to know what a lot of other recommended [see: http://callchecker.moneysavingexpert.com/ukcallchecker/landline/daytime/bt/easy ]  do charge, since 03 numbers are not specifically mentioned.   If other providers include 0330 numbers in an 0p per minutes package then *please* let me know who!  However, I suspect that 0330 number are not included with any of these cheaper providers because they are not routed the same as 01/02 numbers. 

Anyway, perhaps I should have said for technical correctness that 03 numbers are not 01/02 numbers; rather than saying they were a bit like 08xx number? 



How do they suffer ?

03 numbers are not any more expensive to call then 01/02 . They are treated the same as 01/02 numbers for charging purposes by all UK Landline and Mobile Networks,and are included in inclusive minutes. No plans exists to change this

Your problem arose due to your choice of cheap call supplier  because 1899 decided that they would not include access to 03 anymore.Which they were perfectly entitled to do.They dont claim to offer a service to all UK telephone numbering ranges and never have done .

Only 3 suppliers  offer unlimited  landline  calls for 5p per call. 1899,18185,and 18866. All owned by the same company.

The good news for you is they have all now included them again so you can call 03 numbers via 1899 etc  for just 5p a call. Smiley

Make Hay while the sunshines. BT no longer have to allow indirect access to such numbers. They could block them in the future. Other suppliers eg Talk Talk have already blocked them. Shocked
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« Last Edit: Dec 20th, 2014 at 4:51am by bigjohn »  

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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #20 - Jan 30th, 2015 at 1:43pm
 
Finally some good news everybody with regard to Finarea's call brands (1899, 18185, 18866 and various voip offerings) as in the middle of this week I found they were once again carrying calls to 03 numbers at "0p per minute" or 5p connection for the call (however long).

This has not come about by accident as in mid November I made several attempts to contact Ofcom's Director of Content Consumer and External Affairs, Claudio Pollack about this issue.  I had met Claudio long ago at a meeting at Ofcom in 2004 (where he was unstintingly friendly and charming unlike one or two other Ofcom staff members present) and he has remained in post as their head Consumer Affairs section ever since.  I was also able to track down Claudio's current direct phone line through some correspondence he had sent out from Ofcom that is posted on the web.

I never actually got a call back from Claudio himself but finally heard by phone from Marham Sivak at Ofcom in mid November.  Markham is their Principal Competition Policy Officer.  See https://uk.linkedin.com/pub/markham-sivak/0/4a2/88a

Markham told me that Ofcom were already fully aware of this issue and that they did regard the refusal of Finarea's UK call brands using Indirect Access to carry calls to UK 03 numbers as being a potential breach of Ofcom GC17 and were looking in to what could be done to persuade Finarea to comply with the General Condition.  Although Finarea are a Swiss company they have various UK subsidiaries and bank accounts that actually handle the finances of their UK sub-brands but they are also reliant on the Indirect Access facility of the fixed line telephone network (controlled by none other than BT Wholesale) to deliver the service.  Therefore in Mr Markham's opinion unlike the situation with Orange Spain charging vastly more to call UK 03 numbers than 01/02 numbers this matter was covered by Ofcom GC17.

Well it has taken a little time but now it seems that Finarea have been made to see the error of their ways and faced with the alternatives of either shutting down their UK Indirect Access call service (or face repeat fines if they didn't comply with GC17) they have chosen to comply and restore access to 03 numbers at the same rate as 01 and 02.  Ofcom were were also aware of the extensive previous promotion of the Finarea call brands by Moneysavingexpert.com and hence the fact that this breach of GC17 could not be regarded as being trivial.

It may of course be that more work behind the scenes has gone on here and that whatever parties were over charging Finarea for these 03 calls (clearly something had change as Finarea were connecting calls quite happily to 03 numbers for the previous 8 or more years since just after they had been created) compared to 01/02 numbers have also now been forced to lower their prices to sensible levels enabling Finarea to afford to restore access to the 03 number range.

I have to confess that I did intend to email Markham Sivak and also copy in several key journalists if Ofcom got nowhere with this issue but Ofcom have actually acted so comparatively rapidly here that they have beaten me too it in this instance.

However I had tracked down quite a bit more info on who is currently running Finarea in the event we had needed to correspond with them directly to point out the lack of wisdom of their block on calling 03 numbers.  The most useful information I came across was via the website at www.moneyhouse.ch/en/u/finarea_sa_CH-514.3.024.457-9.htm (where more of the info is free than certain rival websites such as kompany.com) and this currently reveals the following:-

Quote:
Director(s):-

Alexander Engel is both a Director (and probably also Chairman) of the company having been in post since 3rd January 2007.

Current Management Board:-

Alf Naus , director and Joint signatory since (27.09.2012)
Anita Sindico, director and joint signatory since (16.01.2012)

Contact Details:-

Viale Carlo Cattaneo 1
6900 Lugano
Phone:
091 922 54 31
Fax:
091 922 54 33


Alf Naus is also a director of KeyCollect SA, another Swiss company.  Alexander Engel and Anita Sindico also appear to have an involvement in the business activities of Keycollect SA.

But I cannot track any more information on these  three people.  They do not seem to be on either Linked In or Facebook.   Just quietly profitable Swiss Telecoms Gnomes it would appear............. Wink
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« Last Edit: Jan 30th, 2015 at 1:53pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #21 - Jan 31st, 2015 at 10:39am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 30th, 2015 at 1:43pm:
Finally some good news everybody with regard to Finarea's call brands (1899, 18185, 18866 and various voip offerings) as in the middle of this week I found they were once again carrying calls to 03 numbers at "0p per minute" or 5p connection for the call (however long).



These have been available since beginning to mid December 2014 as can be seen from posts #16 and #17 above  Wink

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NGMsGhost
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #22 - Jan 31st, 2015 at 10:58am
 
derrick wrote on Jan 31st, 2015 at 10:39am:
These have been available since beginning to mid December 2014 as can be seen from posts #16 and #17 above  Wink


Thanks for pointing that out Derrick. Wink

How time must have flown over xmas and new year as it seems like only five minutes since I tried using 18185 to call an 03 and was told it was not a standard rate number and so could not be carried by them. Cry

Nonetheless the change by Finarea was not made until one month after my conversation with Mr Markham Sivak at Ofcom and I do not believe that Finarea would have changed policy without receiving polite intimations from Ofcom and others that they might face action for a breach of GC17 if they did not include 03 numbers in their same deal as calls to numbers commencing 01 and 02.  Mr Sivak was very definite that the service supplied by Finarea by Indirect Access most definitely came within Ofcom's remit for ensuring GC17 compliance. Cool
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #23 - Feb 1st, 2015 at 10:24am
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Jan 31st, 2015 at 10:58am:
derrick wrote on Jan 31st, 2015 at 10:39am:
These have been available since beginning to mid December 2014 as can be seen from posts #16 and #17 above  Wink


Thanks for pointing that out Derrick. Wink

How time must have flown over xmas and new year as it seems like only five minutes since I tried using 18185 to call an 03 and was told it was not a standard rate number and so could not be carried by them. Cry

Nonetheless the change by Finarea was not made until one month after my conversation with Mr Markham Sivak at Ofcom and I do not believe that Finarea would have changed policy without receiving polite intimations from Ofcom and others that they might face action for a breach of GC17 if they did not include 03 numbers in their same deal as calls to numbers commencing 01 and 02.  Mr Sivak was very definite that the service supplied by Finarea by Indirect Access most definitely came within Ofcom's remit for ensuring GC17 compliance. Cool
#

This thread also confirms 03 numbers supported from about 6 weeks ago, http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1418962421.

Must try harder NGM Grin

Maybe you can try your contacts to get Finerea to support 055 numbers like those supplied by Santander, as they are charged at the same rates as 01/02/03 numbers.

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« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2015 at 10:28am by derrick »  
 
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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #24 - Feb 4th, 2015 at 12:48pm
 
derrick wrote on Feb 1st, 2015 at 10:24am:
Maybe you can try your contacts to get Finerea to support 055 numbers like those supplied by Santander, as they are charged at the same rates as 01/02/03 numbers.


Surely the difference Derrck is that even though many call package providers choose to include 055 numbers in their Anytime bundles or charge them at the same rate for out of bundle calls Ofcom has not included them within GC17 as numbers that must (by Ofcom regulatory mandate) be carried at the same rates as calls to geograpic 01, 02 numbers.

Therefore the only hope in this are is to lobby Ofcom to suggest that it needs to either expand the remit of GC17 to include 055 numbers of that Ofcom takes steps to allow all 055 numbers to be issued with 03 number replacements.

As to why Finarea changed their policy almost certainly they were receiving pressure from many quarters over not covering 03 numbers in their bundles.  This would of course have included Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert who has given their product extensive publicity in the past.
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« Last Edit: Feb 4th, 2015 at 12:49pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: 03 not as good as you think!
Reply #25 - Feb 23rd, 2015 at 6:04pm
 
I believe it would be worth including 056 Numbers in your campaigning to Ofcom, as they are similar to the 055 numbers mentioned.

Smiley
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Regards,

CJT-80

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