SAYNOTO0870.COM - UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings

kasg Senior Member Offline Posts: 320 West Sussex Gender:	Re: UK Calling 1/7/15 Reply #15 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 8:00pm barclay55 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 7:46pm: What is a 'service number' ? Domestic, non-domestic, a doctor, HMRC, the Jobcentre, a bank, Ofcom ?? A number starting 08, 09 or 118, as it says.
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Ian01

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Re: UK Calling 1/7/15
Reply #16 - Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 10:50pm

barclay55 wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 7:46pm:

FROM OFCOM ukcalling.info
From 1 July 2015, the cost of calling service numbers will be made up of two parts:

An access charge: This part of the call charge goes to your phone company, charged as pence per minute. They will tell you how much the access charge will be for calls to service numbers. It will be made clear on bills and when you take out a contract.
A service charge: This is the rest of the call charge. The organisation you are calling decides this, and will tell you how much it is.

What is a 'service number' ?
Domestic, non-domestic, a doctor, HMRC, the Jobcentre, a bank, Ofcom ??
Why is the 'access charge' priced per minute? If I pay my phone company to access a service, I dont expect to pay to my phone company again for 'access', for every minute I use the 'service'.
e.g. if its £5 to the film makers and £5 to access the cinema (of my £10 cinema film ticket) to cover cinema wages and running costs, I dont expect to pay more to the cinema if my film is 110 minutes long vs a 90 minute length?

A service number is a number starting 084, 087, 09 or 118. It's a number with a Service Charge.

Doctors, HMRC, DWP, banks now use 03 numbers. These numbers do not have a service charge.

The Access Charge is the rate you pay your telephone provider to connect and convey the call. This is always a per-minute rate.

The Service Charge is the money that is passed on to a third party to pay them for the service they provided, such as sports results or horoscope, a chatline, etc. This might be a per-minute rate or, in the case of e.g. voting on a TV show or entering a competition, a single per-call charge. In some cases, e.g. directory enquiries, it may be a combination of both.

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« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2015 at 11:03pm by Ian01 »

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nicholas43

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Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings
Reply #17 - Jun 3^rd, 2015 at 3:57pm

I think the biggest myth is that 1 July 2015 is the Happy End. I hope it will in fact turn out to be the Beginning of the End of inefficient costly micropayments through your phone bill.
1 July has already had the Happy End of moving government departments, most banks, and (for example) ATOC's National Rail Enquiries to honest 03 numbers. (So, in effect, all rail users now pay for the minority who have to, or choose to, ask for a train time by phoning 03457 48 49 50.)
I'm wondering what Traveline (for example) will do. They currently say
Quote:

Calls from BT landlines cost 10p per minute plus network extras. Calls from mobiles are likely to cost more. Please note that our call-centre agents only have access to the same information as on this web site.

From 1 July they could (but won't dare) say
Quote:

Calls cost you our telephone company's service charge of 12p a minute, plus your telephone company's access charge of up-to-44p a minute. Of this ridiculous up-to-56p, we get 3p (or whatever). Please get a smart phone and use our website or app instead.

Similarly, the BBC could say
Quote:

To vote for Agatha, call 09bcd... Your call will cost our telco's £1.50 per call, plus your telco's access charge of up to 44p per minute. Of this bizarre £1.94, we get 50p (or whatever). If you often watch this rubbish, please sign up to vote on line and pay by debit card. You pay 52p, and our bank's cut is only 2p.

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« Last Edit: Jun 4^th, 2015 at 9:17am by nicholas43 »

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Ian01 Supreme Member Offline Posts: 767	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #18 - Jun 6^th, 2015 at 3:09pm Within their description of the new call charge system, several landline and mobile providers are telling their customers to look on the ukcalling.info website for their Access Charge, seemingly unaware that they themselves have to decide this charge and publish it on their own website.
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Ian01

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Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings
Reply #19 - Jun 8^th, 2015 at 8:12am

Where a business or organisation uses an 084, 087 or 09 number they will have to declare their Service Charge wherever their number is advertised. The following format is recommended:
"Calls cost Xp per minute plus your phone company's access charge."

Several media outlets have failed to understand the new system and are mistakenly saying that this is the wording that callers will see on their telephone bill.

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« Last Edit: Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:42am by Ian01 »

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Ian01

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Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings
Reply #20 - Jun 9^th, 2015 at 10:41am

A number of service providers have recently amended their price declaration from (something similar to this):
"Calls cost 5p per minute from a BT landline. Other providers and mobile operators may charge more."
to this:
"Calls cost 5p per minute plus your phone provider's access charge."
retaining the same numerical value and without bothering to look up the actual Service Charge that applies from 1 July 2015 and are therefore stating an incorrect value for this.

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Ian01

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Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings
Reply #21 - Jun 11^th, 2015 at 8:22pm

Several landline and mobile providers are using convoluted wording that may confuse the reader.

"If you call 08,09 or 118 numbers, look out for changes as to how these will be charged from July 1st
We'll charge 25p a minute as an access charge to connect you."

Seems to say that 080 numbers will also be charged this way. They aren't.

"Landline Access charge from 1st July - Numbers starting with 08 ~ /09/118 - 5p per minute
~08 numbers - Excludes 0800 and 0808 numbers (free phone). All calls will be charged an access charge + Service charge - for full list of current charge bands, please click HERE."

Why not just say that the Access Charge is for 084, 087, 09 and 118 numbers and that 080 numbers are free?

"Calls to service numbers beginning 08, 09 or 118 (excluding 0800/0808) are subject to an access charge of 9p per minute; this replaces our standard call set-up fee of 15.8p for these calls."

As before, but this time it seems to say that calls to 0800 and 0808 have a 15.8p setup fee. They don't.

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« Last Edit: Jun 11^th, 2015 at 9:12pm by Ian01 »

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Ian01 Supreme Member Offline Posts: 767	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #22 - Jun 12^th, 2015 at 4:32pm Several articles about the changes state that the maximum Service Charge for calls to 09 numbers is £3 per minute or £5 per call. The correct limits are £3.60 per minute and £6 per call as they must be stated including VAT.
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CJT-80 Global Moderator Offline Posts: 1,713 Manchester Gender:	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #23 - Jul 1^st, 2015 at 11:19am A clear rip off example is Three (and I am sure a number of other Mobile networks) Calls to Traveline's expensive number are 12p per minute (their number providers charge) plus 25p per minute (Three's charge) that's nearly 40p a minute!
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kasg Senior Member Offline Posts: 320 West Sussex Gender:	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #24 - Jul 1^st, 2015 at 12:32pm I haven't double checked, but I think 3's access charge is the lowest of the major mobile networks.
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Ian01 Supreme Member Offline Posts: 767	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #25 - Jul 1^st, 2015 at 1:39pm Three - 25p per minute EE - 44p per minute Vodafone - 23p per minute - 45p per minute from August 2015 O2 - 25p per minute - 45p per minute from 15 August 2015. The Access Charges are somewhat irrelevant. The real rip off is the use of a number that imposes a Service Charge on callers.
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kasg Senior Member Offline Posts: 320 West Sussex Gender:	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #26 - Jul 1^st, 2015 at 2:19pm So I was kind of right, assuming 3 doesn't hike its prices in August. (Why are they doing this?)
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CJT-80

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Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings
Reply #27 - Jul 1^st, 2015 at 3:22pm

Ian01 wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 1:39pm:

Three - 25p per minute
EE - 44p per minute
Vodafone - 23p per minute - 45p per minute from August 2015
O2 - 25p per minute - 45p per minute from 15 August 2015.

The Access Charges are somewhat irrelevant.

The real rip off is the use of a number that imposes a Service Charge on callers.

If they had never been set up then companies could never use them.... sadly a number of companies just see profits above all else...

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Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com

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nicholas43

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Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings
Reply #28 - Jul 1^st, 2015 at 6:25pm

Ian01 wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 1:39pm:

The real rip off is the use of a number that imposes a Service Charge on callers.

Why do you think that, Ian? Traveline (for example) has a reasonable case for its 12p service charge (of which they get, presumably, only a part, the rest going to their Telco).
EE has no case at all for its 44p access charge. Asda's, on the same network, is only 8p. Cost price is, presumably, about 5p. Why are the big operators grabbing such a huge markup? Do they want to kill off service numbers and concentrate on selling people smartphones and expensive bundles with lots of data?

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sergeant121 Newbie Offline Have you noticed how many politicians are lawyers? Posts: 36 Gender:	Re: UK Calling - Myths and misunderstandings Reply #29 - Jul 2^nd, 2015 at 4:25pm Ian01 wrote on Jul 1^st, 2015 at 1:39pm: Three - 25p per minute EE - 44p per minute Vodafone - 23p per minute - 45p per minute from August 2015 O2 - 25p per minute - 45p per minute from 15 August 2015. And yet, GiffGaff (on the O2 network) has a 7p/minute Access Charge.
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