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Charity numbers (Read 25,219 times)
mikeglondon
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Charity numbers
May 26th, 2005 at 1:36pm
 
This is a great website using the power of the internet to prevent customers being ripped off.

I would like people to think about the use of non-geographical phone numbers used by charities.  Charities will often use these numbers to generate income.  I know of a specific pet charity that provides a customer advice line using a non-geographical number.  Costs are incurred in providing this service, which are offset by the income from the phone call.  Without this income it would not be possible for the charity to provide this invaluable service.

I therefore consider this a reasonable use of non-geographical phone numbers.  Do the administrators of this site have a policy on listing charity phone numbers?
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bigjohn
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #1 - May 26th, 2005 at 2:08pm
 
Mike i am sure the admin guys will reply to your specific question.

But can you tell us if the charity you are referring to.
1.Tell the callers on there site how much it actually costs to phone the NGN number. I presume its 0870.
2.Do they say on the site the income recieved from calls helps to pay for the service.

If they do , thats one of the very few uses of 0870 that i could go along with.

Are you prepared to share the name of the site with us.
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2005 at 2:10pm by bigjohn »  

BJ.
 
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Dave
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #2 - May 26th, 2005 at 2:18pm
 
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If they do in my Humble Opinion, thats one of the very rare uses of 0870 that i could go along with.

However, it's a very 'inefficient' way to pay. A daytime call to 0870 costs 7.51p/min on BT. A daytime local call is between 3p and 0p/min, so the service provider is therfore charging a premium of between 4.51p/min and 7.51p/min. This is in return for what rate? 2p or 3p/min maybe. So where's the rest going? Simple, to the telco providing the 0870!

Imagine if banks started charging us like this. They do do this in the form of rip-off charging cash machines.
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bbb_uk
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #3 - May 26th, 2005 at 2:19pm
 
Quote:
But can you tell us if the charity you are referring to.
1.Tell the callers on there site how much it actually costs to phone the NGN number. I presume its 0870.
2.Do they say on the site the income recieved from calls helps to pay for the service.

I also agree the use of 0870 numbers in these circumstances are ok but can I add to point 1 by bigjohn: Specifically, do they actually say that calls cost anywhere from around 8ppm daytime (BT landline) and simply do not just say calls charged at 'national rate'.  'National Rate' descriptions have been ruled as misleading by ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) and OfCOM.

UPDATE:  Dave also has a good point.  It's the call provider gaining most of the money and not the charity itself!
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2005 at 2:22pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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bigjohn
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #4 - May 26th, 2005 at 2:25pm
 
Perhaps they should consider a 0871 number,or a 09 number.

Dave does raise a good point,but how else could the charity maintain the helpline.Have the Charity given this any thought.
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« Last Edit: May 26th, 2005 at 2:32pm by bigjohn »  

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Dave
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #5 - May 26th, 2005 at 2:34pm
 
Quote:
Perhaps they should consider a 0871 number,or a 09 number.

I don't know what sort of ratio a typical 09 number has (price caller pays vs revenue paid to service provider), but 0871 may well be the same. At 10p/min, the telco would have to pay the SP at least 7p/min in the daytime and more in e&w.
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bigjohn
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #6 - May 26th, 2005 at 4:46pm
 
Yes.The biggest outpayment i have seen on 0871 to an end user was 4.5p a min at peak rate.You got nothing from them for evening or weekend calls though.
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idb
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #7 - May 26th, 2005 at 6:34pm
 
Quote:
[...]
I would like people to think about the use of non-geographical phone numbers used by charities.  Charities will often use these numbers to generate income.  I know of a specific pet charity that provides a customer advice line using a non-geographical number.  Costs are incurred in providing this service, which are offset by the income from the phone call.  Without this income it would not be possible for the charity to provide this invaluable service.

I therefore consider this a reasonable use of non-geographical phone numbers.  Do the administrators of this site have a policy on listing charity phone numbers?
Even the good old Charity Commission has got in on the act - http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/tcc/cctouch.asp lists contact center and minicom numbers that begin 0870. More government exploitation.

A FOI request has already been submitted.

As far as I am concerned, if the government is going to exploit the public, then it is going to have to keep answering these requests. It is not cheap for government bodies and agencies to deal with requests from the public such as FOI and questions of policy. The more FOI and policy questions submitted the better. The 0870 revenue will soon begin to erode. I suspect that, like the FCO, the Charity Commission gets very little revenue from 0870 and its IT department has been mis-sold these numbers as being beneficial - similar to what NEG has been doing with surgeries.
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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mikeglondon
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #8 - May 27th, 2005 at 12:11pm
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys.  The charity in question actually uses 09* numbers for this advice service.  The cost of the call is advised to the customer and is clearly stated on literate and their website.  All other phone numbers are of the geographic variety.  I don’t wish to name the charity since my point was general and not specific to them.

I assume other charities do however use 087* numbers.  I agree totally that ALL organisations, including charities, that use 087* numbers should disclose the cost of the call.  They should be forced to do this by government or telecom regulators.  It would however be a shame if ‘the baby is thrown out with the bathwater’ by targeting charities in campaigning for change.

I also realise that the percentage of the money from the call going to the organisation can sometimes be rather low.  Income for a charity is still however income!
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bbb_uk
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #9 - May 27th, 2005 at 3:48pm
 
Quote:
...The charity in question actually uses 09* numbers for this advice service.  The cost of the call is advised to the customer and is clearly stated on literate and their website....

The reason for this is that they have to make it clear of the call costs and are not able to keep anyone in a queuing system due to government legislation.

It's when they start using 087* numbers for the same thing but don't inform people of the actual call costs involved and keep them queuing just to make more money from us!
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2005 at 3:48pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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westier
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Re: Charity numbers: QUEUING
Reply #10 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 12:51pm
 
Please note that Westie ReHoming does not currently have any telephone equipment sophisticated enough to create a queue!  If you are second caller, it's engaged I'm afraid!

Lee Johnson
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DaveM
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #11 - Jun 7th, 2005 at 5:07pm
 
Come on guys.
Which is the most effective revenue making method from phone calls, that won't earn a fortune for the Telco ?   Roll Eyes

Let's have a comparison table with details of company, number type, number hire charge, revenue return, minimum contract period, (etc.) so we can see how much these thieving Telco's are getting.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Charity numbers: QUEUING
Reply #12 - Jun 8th, 2005 at 7:44pm
 
Quote:
Please note that Westie ReHoming does not currently have any telephone equipment sophisticated enough to create a queue!  If you are second caller, it's engaged I'm afraid!
Lee Johnson


Why did you come to this place if you did not want criticism.  You did something very stupid by asking your callers to pay you say £1.50 for say a 20 minute call of which you only get 30p when if you had been a competent and responsible organisation you could at least have derived 60p from that 20 minute call by shopping around for a better 0870 deal.  Also if your aim is to put people off calling you and to derive as much income as possible then why did you not go for an 0871 number which costs the caller 10p per minute at all times and pays you 5p per minute at all times?  But as with 0870 you are still not forced to reveal or declare the extra call cost to callers unlike an 09 prefixed number.

Also if you think getting money from your callers is actually a sane strategy then why not go the whole hog and register for a £1.50 per minute 0906 premium rate line.  That would certainly put off the unwanted callers!

You went this route in reality because at the time you were obviously conned into believing that 0870 was the same as the ordinary BT national rate for other calls even though even at that time BT discount schemes like BT Option 3 already existed and excluded 0870 calls.  Also even now you rely on the ignorance of your callers stil thinking 0870 is the same as a geographic number and unethically profiteering from them in this way.  The reason of course that you don't get an 0906 number is because you know that where people are actually they are being ripped off they avoid it like the plague.  But unfortunately with 0870 a lot of members of the public are not aware of the ripoff yet.  So you and BT cynically take advantage of their ignorance.

Are you an ardent Sunday churchgoer by any chance.  Do you shake hands with your fellow members of the congregation believing as they do that god is with you in everything you do in your life and that if you prey a little bit more it will all come right for you?

Your posts bear all the hallmarks of such a personaliy type.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #13 - Feb 15th, 2006 at 4:44pm
 
Why have the latest posts by myself and Westier in this thread once again been removed by a disgracefully cynical forum management not prepared to acknowledge its own actions.

The latest posts by Westier confirmed their geographic alternative numbers and obtaining these alternatives is a primary objective of this site.  Why have they again been removed by stealth by the forum management.

Stop this nonsense now or I will resign as a member of this forum and start my own rival www.saynotoofcom.org discussion forum.
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mc661
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Re: Charity numbers
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2006 at 7:03pm
 
yeah, where have the 'fun' posts gone.

This IS censorship of the OfCon kind. Oh wait no OfCon just ignores everyone and comes up with its own agenda, but wait isnt that what deleting posts are - saynoto0870.com own agenda.
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