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NHS DIRECT  0845 (Read 99,968 times)
SilentCallsVictim
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #30 - Jan 30th, 2008 at 8:58pm
 
A HAPPY DAY IN LONDON

I can report on a happy day in London today, as a spectator watching redoubtable performances from four members of the forum in presenting the case covered by this topic before the Information Tribunal. The principle members, unfamiliar with proceedings of this type, presented strong arguments, often in very trying circumstances before a sympathetic, but demanding, panel.

The focus of the case has become distorted due to the two years that have elapsed since the original request was presented and significant developments that have occurred in the interim. Given that the three parties: the Appellant, NHSD and the ICO, each had different objectives and therefore approached the question of what was relevant differently, the case was hard to follow and must have been hard to conduct.

Whatever the decision, which will be announced in due course, these four heros of the cause have much to be proud of. Any further positive move by NHSD to get away from its 0845 number (as has now been promised by government) must, in part, be attributed to their efforts.

They may wish to comment themselves in detail. I make this posting simply to register the necessary praise, and perhaps thanks due on behalf of other members.

David

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derrick
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #31 - Mar 7th, 2008 at 2:48pm
 
The Appeals Tribunal have finally ruled,(against us), in this matter, the full decision can be seen here;-

http://www.informationtribunal.gov.uk/Documents/decisions/DLawtonVinfoCommission...

~ Edited by Dave: Link amended
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« Last Edit: Mar 7th, 2008 at 3:00pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: NHS DIRECT  0845
Reply #32 - Jul 6th, 2008 at 4:32pm
 
Members may be interested to note that NHS Direct has stated that it would change to an alternative 03xx number in the event that the Darzi review (published last Monday) did not require it to change to a national three digit number (e.g. 888). There is no such recommendation in the report.

This, and other relevant issues are covered in a briefing document recently added to the "NHS Patient" resource website.

Attempts have been made to draw the attention of various parties to this matter. Other members may wish to do the same.
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loddon
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #33 - Jul 19th, 2008 at 8:57am
 
INERESTING!!!

BBC TV "Breakfast" has shown "NEWSWATCH" this morning in which there is discussion about their move to 0370 numbers. See the link below to watch this online. I also believe that this item may be repesated at around 08.45 this morning and again on Breakfast tomorrow. The item is after half way through the Newswatch item.

During the piece Michael Scott of the BBC is interviewed and interestingly he says that the BBC wanted to make the switch from 0870 without "running up a bigger phone bill for the BBC". He implies that there has been no cost, or additional cost to the BBC in this move and this has great implications for our campaign!!! It indicates, for example, that NHS Direct are wrong to suggest that moving from their 0845 number to an 03 number would cost them extra. Of course they might lose their revenue share but they have always categorically denied getting any revenue share and even went to great length to get BT Global Services to provide a written statement confirming that NHSD get no revenue share (hoist by their own petard?).

This means that all the other Quangos and government departments cannot argue that they cannot afford to move to 03 because of the cost. This entirely counters statements by the Contact Council that moves to 03 would cost them and provides us with a solid argument and evidence when we are disputing this matter with other abusers of 084/7 numbers.

Interestingly, GPs always claim that they are making no money from their use of 0844/5 numbers so .... they could all switch easily to 03 numbers Wink Kiss Cool Cheesy Grin      



http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7510000/newsid_7514800/7514804.stm?bw=bb...


Edited:
More on the BBC's change from 0870 to 0370 in this thread.
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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2008 at 3:34pm by Dave »  
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ew.walgrove
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Re: NHS Direct use of 0845
Reply #34 - Nov 28th, 2009 at 7:17pm
 
Hi,

Please see below the NHS Direct response to my Freedom of Information request which I made on Saturday 17th Ocober 09, NHS Direct responsed on Friday 13th November 09.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/21273/response/55719/attach/3/0845%20Freed...
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netbuddy
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #35 - Dec 21st, 2009 at 7:42pm
 
mc661 wrote on Feb 26th, 2006 at 12:22am:
It always annoys me when they quote an exemption then never put the full text in the letter as if you know all the exemptions off by heart.

22. - (1) Information is exempt information if-
(a) the information is held by the public authority with a view to its publication, by the authority or any other person, at some future date (whether determined or not),
(b) the information was already held with a view to such publication at the time when the request for information was made, and
(c) it is reasonable in all the circumstances that the information should be withheld from disclosure until the date referred to in paragraph (a).

How I read that is that, as they only decided the information was going to be published at a later date after your second email that section (b) has not been followed. So thats one point to you.


      38. - (1) Information is exempt information if its disclosure under this Act would, or would be likely to-
(a) endanger the physical or mental health of any individual, or
(b) endanger the safety of any individual.

Personally I can not see how providing you with an 01/02 number would endanger the physical or mental health of you, the operator or any other individual. Sure it might mentally hurt the NHS for those extra stats they made off you.
Safety they may have a case. If what they are saying is true that a GN might be passed as a 999 call then its true, but if its a true 999 call wouldnt they be calling 999 anyway?


44. - (1) Information is exempt information if its disclosure (otherwise than under this Act) by the public authority holding it-
(a) is prohibited by or under any enactment,
(b) is incompatible with any Community obligation, or
(c) would constitute or be punishable as a contempt of court.

This is interesting as I havent seen this exemption being applied before. I have spoken to my FOI QC friend and he also hasnt seen it being applied. Ask them for proof of the 'Community obligation'.


I suggest that you send a final letter/email to them saying you are now making a complaint to the Information Commisioner due to their failure to answer your question in full, quoting wrong exemptions and that you also know your full rights under section 50. In actual fact dont even bother contacting them, go straight to the IC.



The problem is that the Data Protection Act is misused.

The DPA only covers individuals and not inanimate objects like telephone numbers.

So asking for something under the FOI and your being refused that information by misuse of another act calls for a serious complaint. You might get better response by going to your local MP who will have more clout and it gives you the opportunity to educate your local MP on this issue of the misuse of the DPA and FOI as well as the cost to the individual for calling these premium rate numbers. I know that o2 charge a hell of allot, a recent call to the DWP on a 0845 number cost me 7.60 and the call was not long, 15 minutes approx, which equates to about 50p a minute I was paying.

The major issue is "other providers" which require slapping in to order.


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ew.walgrove
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Re: NHS DIRECT 0845
Reply #36 - Jan 2nd, 2010 at 11:01pm
 
Letter from Nick Hall Deputy Director dated 21 December 2009, on the use of 084 Numbers in NHS Bodies. Not that NHS Direct are exempt

Nick Hall, Deputy Director Letter

Directions to Strategic Health Authorities, Primary Care Trusts, Special Health Authorities and NHS Trust in England (with the exception of NHS Direct NHS Trust) which came into force on 21st December 2009


Directions to NHS bodies regarding cost of telephone calls
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