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Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan (Read 312,759 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #105 - Apr 20th, 2006 at 2:54pm
 
Predictably anodine comment from Mr Derbyshire toeing the official Ofcom line!  What I want to know happened to the contents of my press release which I sent to several papers yesterday (including directly to David Derbyshire) condemning Ofcom's failure to act quickly enough or tackle 0845s and allowing revenue share to continue on 08 alongside 0800 Freephone.  It seems these national newspaper journalists are in fact terrified to publish anything they think doesn't come from an official government source even thouhgh the government source here is lieing through its teeth about what is really going on. Shocked Angry Angry Angry
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gdh82
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #106 - Apr 20th, 2006 at 8:49pm
 
Quote:
Sorry to suggest yet more work but for all those of you who were planning on responding to Ofcom's consultation on its
In short don't write pages but just a few paragraphs telling Ofcom their whole approach to Consumer Protection is an utter joke that consumers are not getting a better deal as a result of their actions and that due to the composition of their Board and their staff they are widely perceived as being in bed with the telecoms industry.

Ofcom's Consumer Policy:-  See www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ocp/


For what its worth I've just emailed my response on Ofcom's Consumer Policy:

Quote:
I would like to respond to this consultation by commenting on what I consider to be Ofcom's utter and complete failure in protecting the consumers' interests.  This is not highlighted any better than by Ofcom’s announcement on 19 April 2006 to further delay for almost another two years its proposal to cut the cost of 0870 calls.

In my opinion the whole 0845/0844/0870/0871 situation is a mess which Ofcom has allowed to happen.  In the overwhelming majority of cases there is no justification for these overpriced and misleading numbers to be charged at a higher rate than a geographic number.  Ofcom could not have received a clearer public response against 0870s etc following its consultation, "NTS - The Way Forward",  and yet Ofcom decides to do too little, too slowly and ultimately too late.  Ofcom have missed a huge opportunity to show its credentials in protecting the interests of the consumer.

It is incredibly difficult NOT to conclude that Ofcom sides very heavily with the interests of business rather than the consumer, and I believe this perception is widespread.  It seems Ofcom have presided over a excessively complicated telephone numbering system which simultaneously confuses the public on the one hand but on the other provides numerous opportunities for telecom companies to profit from this very confusion.  How this arrangement can “further the interests of citizens in relation to communications matters or further the interests of consumers in relevant markets, where appropriate by promoting competition” is beyond me.

Even worse still, Ofcom is now developing an image of incompetence.  It seemingly spurts out consultations with little or no regards for their sequence or co-ordination.  The sequencing of two recent consultations ("NTS - The Way Forward" and the "Review of the UK Telephone Numbering") always seemed ridiculous, and consequently the proposals of the former have had to be shelved due to the inconsistency with those of the  later ‘s.  At least Ofcom admitted this in the latter’s consultation document: “ Ofcom recognises that there is an apparent inconsistency between this proposition, which establishes the new ‘03’ range as the natural home for those services which do not require revenue sharing, and the proposals set out in the NTS consultation, which may lead to the end of revenue sharing on the 0870 range, and possibly also on 0845.”  Surely there ought to be much greater evidence of co-ordination and forward thinking between the excessive numbers of consultations.

I find it particularly ironic that given Ofcom is the Office of Communications it should be so poor at communicating itself.  The consultation documents themselves seem unnecessarily long and complicated as are the response documents.  The "Review of the UK Telephone Numbering" response document contains no fewer than 61 questions!  Cynics might say that this only serves to deter a response and judging from the Ofcom’s response web page, there’s evidence to support this!  I know Ofcom provides summary documents but I do not feel that this provides anything like an adequate solution.

Sadly I am not at all optimistic about Ofcom’s future plans in protecting consumer interests and regrettably I fear that this response has already been ignored.
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« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2006 at 8:51pm by gdh82 »  

There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc
 
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Dave
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #107 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:05am
 
I plan on sending in my short response to Ofcom's Consumer Policy review later on today. The main points I will highlight are:
  • basic line rental has gone up by 50% the last two years.
  • this has lead to others, principally CPW's TalkTalk following suit coupled with the fact that customers of Onetel and Tele2 have/are been forcefully migrated onto more expensive packages.
  • Ofcom has a habit of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Some examples; premium rate scams, reverse-charged premium rate SMS and the latest, slamming.
  • whilst charges for calling geographical numbers have undoubtedly fallen, other parts of the telephone service have not and have gone up.
  • 0845/0870 numbers cost pretty much the same as when there was only BT to choose from. They are anti-competitive and go against what a free market is supposed to stand for. Either that, or they are premium rate; they can't be both, although telco-wordsmiths would like to think that they are.
  • I believe that there is a distinct lack of understanding by the public of how telecommunications services are charged, brought about by misleading names and brand names like 0870 being 'national rate' and BT's 0845 Lo-call name which still appears on telephone bills to this day.
  • Couple this with the further lack of interest by the telecommunications industry to clear up any misunderstanding about local and national geographical calls costing the same has resulted in total confusion.
  • There is no obligation on premium rate service providers (including 0844/0871) to display pricing information, resulting in companies making money unbeknown to the customer.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #108 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:29am
 
gdh82 wrote on Apr 20th, 2006 at 8:49pm:
For what its worth I've just emailed my response on Ofcom's Consumer Policy:


Excellent response gdh82 really taking them to task on their many repeated failures to put the interests of the citizen consumer first including on the 084/7 issue.

Like most Ofcom consultations which are never publicised in any way at all by Ofcom (not even the recent one on allowing more Pay Tv on the Freeview platform which attracted only 30 responses but would have had thousands if Ofcom had paid for an advert about it on a Free Freeview channel) this one will probably only pick up 20 or 30 responses so if even just those at the top of the commitment list in this forum (idb, mc661, bigjohn etc have you responded to this) responded in a very negative fashion to their proposals that all is well with Ofcom's actions it would really put a spoke in their wheel.  Also from an interchange of letters betweeen Colette Bowe, Chairman of the Ofcom Consumer Panel and Stepen Carter CEO of Ofcom found in Page 90 something of the full Consumer Policy consultation its obvious that the Ofcom Consumer Panel think this is an attempt by Ofcom to yet further side with the interests of Stephen Carter's ex telco mates and to ride roughshod over the citizen consumer.

So well done gdh but could 10 other activists in this forum also send their responses by the end of the weekend?

I was thinking of posting my response on here but it ran to 6 typed ages of A4 as I had so many points to make.  Of course I expect Ofcom may not read it but perhaps Colette Bowe will.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #109 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:35am
 
Dave wrote on Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:05am:
I plan on sending in my short response to Ofcom's Consumer Policy review later on today. The main points I will highlight are:


Make sure to date it for 19th April at the top Dave if you do it as an attached Word Document as that should make it easy for Ofcom to accept it without issue.  They accepted a response from their own Ofcom Consumer Panel to NTS Way Forward over a week late although that was backdated to look as though it was only 2 days late (but they still accepted and published a letter that was actually dated after the consultation closed which really sets a huge precedent).  So if they don't accept other late submissions they have a lot of explaining to do.  Anyhow I know that at the moment they believe in accepting all late responses for a week or two, basiclally because so many of their consultations pick up so few responses, no doubt because many of us gradually begin to lose heart.  Something the the well paid Ofcom staff who keep the endless consultation sausage machine turning no doubt rely on. Wink
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Dave
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #110 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:43am
 
Quote:
Excellent response gdh82 really taking them to task on their many repeated failures to put the interests of the citizen consumer first including on the 084/7 issue.

Ditto NGM's comments.

Further to my previous post, I also think that it's worth mentioning the lack of enforcement in ensuring that all telcos are members of an Alternate Dispute Resolution (ADR) scheme (more here). It's good to see that they've done something about those ISPs, but the likes of Finarea appear to be untouchable should a customer be overcharged or have any other complaint for that matter.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #111 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 10:01am
 
Dave wrote on Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:43am:
It's good to see that they've done something about those ISPs, but the likes of Finarea appear to be untouchable should a customer be overcharged or have any other complaint for that matter.


I'm hoping that Finarea will ne next on Ofcom's lack of an ADR scheme hit list but only time will tell.  Of course perhaps I will be sorry if the 1899 call cost rises to 5p per call although with other more competent and high quality ISPs than TalkTalk bound to launch broadband packages that also include all 01/02 calls and line rental as well fairly soon I think the need for a Finarea type telecoms call routing solution may well diminish.
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Dave
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #112 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 10:08am
 
Quote:
I'm hoping that Finarea will ne next on Ofcom's lack of an ADR scheme hit list ...

Is it a statutory requirement that a telco must be a member at least 1 ADR scheme?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #113 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 10:13am
 
Dave wrote on Apr 21st, 2006 at 10:08am:
Is it a statutory requirement that a telco must be a member at least 1 ADR scheme?


Yes.

Mr David Stewart, Ofcom Director of Investigation has already confirmed this.  Its just that Ofcom's approach to taking action is to only prioritise those cases where they have had a lot of complaints about a company and the level of detriment to the consumer is considered serious.

Obviously in general people are fairly happy with Finarea apart from them increasing prices without telling customers (which I notice they have stopped doing lately) and the dodgy voice quality of some calls which have echo back that makes them unusable.
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dad2711
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #114 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 11:56am
 
Well we will now have to wait till 2008  at the earliest before ofcom do something about 0870 numbers  news on msn web site uk today   http://news.money.msn.co.uk/article.aspx?as=article&f=uk_-_olgbbus&t=3581&id=268...                Angry
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« Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2006 at 11:59am by dad2711 »  

dad2711 &&I try to find numbers :--  but now im getting better at finding them
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #115 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 12:09pm
 
dad2711 wrote on Apr 21st, 2006 at 11:56am:
Well we will now have to wait till 2008  at the earliest before ofcom do something about 0870 numbers  news on msn web site uk today


And on Page 7 of this thread of course..........................................................................
.................. Roll Eyes

Don't get your hopes up though as 0870 scammers like the BBC or Government Departments who don't get a kickback directly but get a free switchboard on the back of the extra money received by their telco supplier from the 0870 will still be able to charge more as long as they add a call price announcemnt.

Or they can move to 10p per minute at all times on 0871 or 5p per minute at all times on an 0844 number.  Although that's less in the week its  a lot more than the 1.5p per minute at the weekend charged for 0870s.

And the public will really understand about 0870 being normal rate for only some calls but not others and 0871 being premium rate for all calls not won't they. Roll Eyes Angry Angry Angry
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« Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2006 at 12:15pm by N/A »  
 
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dad2711
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #116 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 6:34pm
 
Quote:
And the public will really understand about 0870 being normal rate for only some calls but not others and 0871 being premium rate for all calls not won't they. Roll Eyes Angry Angry Angry

yes of course the normal joe public that knows all about the 0870 scam!  " idont think so " will not get caught paying the extra charge on their phone bill  yet again the public pay   Angry Sad   Shocked

~ NGM's quote tidied up by Dave
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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2006 at 1:48pm by Dave »  

dad2711 &&I try to find numbers :--  but now im getting better at finding them
 
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kk
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #117 - Apr 22nd, 2006 at 10:00am
 
Re NGM's post (No. 103), I rushed out this response on 19th April.


"My overall impression of Ofcom’s activities is that it acts more like a trade association for the telecom industry, than to further the interests of the consumer citizen.

Ofcom produces consultation after consultation.   The purpose of the consultations appears, not to elicit views and opinions from consumers, but to reinforce opinions already held by Ofcom.  If a consultation does not produce the “correct response” then Ofcom produces another consultation.  The consultations and accompanying consultations questions are framed to produce an ‘Ofcom acceptable outcome’.  A recent example is the consultation on NTS (non-geographical numbers)  followed by a Consultation on Telephone Numbering.  Both consultations relating to widely overlapping topics. The first consultation resulted in an unprecedented massive response, and produced widespread criticism of the scams associated with the use of  non-geographic telephone numbers (087x and 084x), the second consultation appears to be designed to produce a much smaller response, and was far to long with  61 consultation questions.  The second consultation ignored the overwhelming views expressed in the first consultation.

Consultation documents put simple ideas in  convoluted, complex and prolix ways.

Ofcom has failed time after time to protect the consumer and appears to support the telecom industry in the many scams and sharp practices, by its weak and indecisive regulation."

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KK
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #118 - Apr 23rd, 2006 at 2:52pm
 
kk wrote on Apr 22nd, 2006 at 10:00am:
"My overall impression of Ofcom’s activities is that it acts more like a trade association for the telecoms industry, than to further the interests of the consumer citizen.

Ofcom produces consultation after consultation.   The purpose of the consultations appears, not to elicit views and opinions from consumers, but to reinforce opinions already held by Ofcom.  If a consultation does not produce the “correct response” then Ofcom produces another consultation.


You have it in one kk except that I used to work for a trade association that represented the unit trust industry that took a considerably stronger line in trying to control ethical standards and selling practices amongst its members than Ofcom as a regulator does.  Basically Stephen Carter seems to have no idea whatsoever what a regulator is supposed to be there for and just seems to think his job is to make life as profitable and freewheeling as possible for the telcos.  And as New Labour is also a party to many telco scams and as Stephen Carter is clearly a New Labour Chrony he just seems to get away with it. Angry Angry Angry

The Non Exec Directors on the Ofcom Board ought to stand up for the consumer but they are the usual bunch of politically correct saps selected for in fact not ever making any waves in the telecoms industry but only for being involved in various boring and irrelevant forms of politically correct activities.

On this last consultation's responses its clear the public also wanted 0845 to become normally priced but Ofcom simply ignored them.  And to allow some 0870 numbers that do not provide a direct revenue share to the call centre but who do give a kickback to the telecoms supplier (who then provides various free items of phone equipment and line rental etc to the call centre) is an even bigger disgrace.

Basically Ofcom seems determine to prove they are in the pocket of the telecoms industry and they are impossible to shame into taking the most appropriate action to protect the rights o the uk citizen consumer. Angry Angry Angry
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« Last Edit: Apr 23rd, 2006 at 2:52pm by N/A »  
 
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #119 - Apr 29th, 2006 at 7:57am
 
The whole thing is just so typically British rip-off culture.  Ofcom is just lip service to consumer interests.  In reality, the government whether Tory or New Labour, is wedded to the interests of big business.  Why on earth should we have call fees on premium rate lines being shared at all?  I find it quite hard to phone any business these days without having to use a rip off 0870 number.  Although I have had 0900 series premium rate lines barred from my phone, this doesn't apply to 0845 or 0870 numbers.

It is particularly disgusting when this affects necessary services such as police and government departments, that people have to phone.  I'm glad that people are waking up to just how we've been conned all the time; let's not get fobbed off with complicated schemes that take 2 years to go into effect and anyway just give the profiteers a different way to shaft the public.

(a) tell Ofcom (without bothering with their deliberately offputting questionnaire) that we want the 0845/0870 numbers system scrapped altogether.
(b) meanwhile make sure that everyone knows what a scam the 0870 system is, and that businesses should give us proper geographical numbers if they want our custom.

No wonder foreigners call Britain 'Treasure island'!

John
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