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Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan (Read 278,154 times)
gdh82
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #15 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 10:11am
 
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The big issue is that unless use of 084/7 chargeable services is banned they are not going to have to obtain replacement numbers and so will have little incentive to migrate to using 03.  The most likely outcome is that the ethical 0845 voice service users (the vast majority of those using 0845 for voice) will set up an 03 charged at geographic rates routing to the same place as the 0845 before those are ultimately discontinued.  I also have a big fear that Ofcom is now going to change its mind on 0870 being charged at geographic rates.


I share this fear too that they will drop plans to restore the link between 0870 and geographic call rates.  After all, regrettably, from Ofcom's point of view, they may consider it a duplication - there would be no difference between 0870 charged at geographic rates and the proposed 03-range.

And, as NGM also raises, how does Ofcom intend to encourage users of 0870/0845 numbers to transfer to the new 03-range.  As it stands there seems very little incentive and Ofcom would then probably say its not their place to force companies to do anything, Ofcom just provides the 'framework'.  Yet again, we'd end up with a mess of 03s, 087s and 0845s - confusion reigns again.  Angry Shocked Angry

I too support the view that as part of introducing the 03-range and to achieve greater clarity and consistency, abolish 087x and 084x, and any revenue raising 08x must move to 09x!  This would also clearly leave 08 as freephone.  Surely, this clearly makes common sense? (Even if it does trample over some of the vested interests of the Ofcom/Telecoms Industry!)  Embarrassed
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2006 at 10:15am by gdh82 »  

There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #16 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 10:50am
 
gdh82 wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 10:11am:
Surely, this clearly makes common sense? (Even if it does trample over some of the vested interests of the Ofcom/Telecoms Industry!)  Embarrassed


Unfortunately Ofcom's plans do not ever encompass common sense and what is good for the citizen/consumer but only whatever is required to make life as easy as possible for people like Rupert Murdoch (a major New Labour crony who continues to support Tony Blair) and Sky who are major 0870 abusers.

Then by doing whatever New Labour and its telecoms industry cronies want Messrs Currie and Carter hope to receive their just deserts of a seat in the House of Lords and a well paid regulatory job somewhere else in due course.

As dorf would have said the whole thing is bamboozle and a smoke screen for allowing the scamming to continue.  The only difference will be that those 0845 users who genuinely do not want to charge callers extra will be abled to get a new 03 prefixed NGN number charged at normal geographic national call rates.

But note that the people who are inconvenienced by having to get a new 03 number are those who want to do the right thing while the 084/7 scammers can continue their ripoff businesses untouched using the same old 084/7 numbers. Shocked Angry
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grimp
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #17 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 1:31pm
 
Isn't the new 03 code just a re-hash of the Oftel corporate numbering proposal which they were planning in the 05 range.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/ind_groups/numbering/forum/corptnmb...  
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #18 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 1:36pm
 
grimp wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 1:31pm:
Isn't the new 03 code just a re-hash of the Oftel corporate numbering proposal which they were planning in the 05 range.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/ind_groups/numbering/forum/corptnmb...  


I am unaware of the Corporate Numbering Proposals and I have not yet had the time to plough through the 158 pages of this consultation in detail.

Why on earth would corporates need a special number?  Is that just so they could hide their true uk geographic location?
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2006 at 2:58pm by N/A »  
 
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grimp
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #19 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 2:57pm
 
I think that Ofcom has decided to drop the corporate name but I do think that "A2.35 Our specific proposal is to target this new range at those businesses and public sector bodies which require a non-geographic number because they require a national presence, rather than because they wish to generate revenue from incoming calls." p93 sounds like a similar idea but spun differently.

Back in 1997 Oftel consulted on allocating the 05 number range to corporate companies. So instead of the teleco's owning a 05 range the company would. This would be instead of a geographic number and not masking one like current NGNs. The theory was that the company would then be able to mange its communications systems (including allocating its own numbers) in a more cost-efficient and effective way rather than having to deal with one or many telecoms companies, essentially setting up a private network Also, as it is the company that owns the number range they would effectively be able to play the telcos off against each other and get the best deal for themselves. The link is a powerpoint slide trying to push this idea to an industry group.  

How this could work would be that Tesco's would get the range 03 251 0000 to 9999. So national customer services could be 0000, store a 0001, store b 0002, Head office 0003 etc...    
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:00pm by grimp »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #20 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:02pm
 
grimp wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 2:57pm:
How this could work would be that Tesco's would get the range 03 251 0000 to 9999. So national customer services could be 0000, store a 0001, store b 0002, Head office 0003 etc...


Personally I think we would be much better off with everything staying on geographic codes that let you identify where you are calling , including voip services.

But I suppose the whole thing will fall apart as everything moves over to voip name calling instead of phone numbers in due course.  Then you won't know where in the world you are calling to or being called from.
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« Last Edit: Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:12pm by Dave »  
 
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andy9
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #21 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:05pm
 
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Why on earth would corporates need a special number?  Is that just so they could hide their true uk geographic location?


Partly that, but they probably also like the idea of having numbers the customers might easily remember - 03210 321321 or 03456 456456 for example, but maybe we'll be stuck with 03078 and 03847 prefixes instead  Roll Eyes

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #22 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:28pm
 
andy9 wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 3:05pm:
Partly that, but they probably also like the idea of having numbers the customers might easily remember - 03210 321321 or 03456 456456 for example, but maybe we'll be stuck with 03078 and 03847 prefixes instead  Roll Eyes

There also seem to be plenty of highly memorable 01 and 02 numbers though and surely there are many marketing disadvantages in not being perceived as a locally based company and/or not offering the cheapest phone costs to your callers?
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jrawle
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #23 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 5:56pm
 
Quote:
[

What I am very unhappy about though in these proposals is the proposal that 080 Free will be kept with the rest of 08 Chargeable Services which will let the 087 scammers carry on untouched.

...

I also have a big fear that Ofcom is now going to change its mind on 0870 being charged at geographic rates.


When I read that proposal, I too was concerned that they were going to change their mind on 0870 numbers. They do say, "These proposals complement work already underway to reform the current 084/087 numbering scheme, the conclusion of which will be published next month," but how does a geographical rate 0870 fit into a scheme where 082 numbers are cheap, 089 numbers are expensive, etc? Unfortunately, it will complement 0870 numbers better if they are charged at 8p/min!

However, freephone numbers do fit in logically if 080 is to be free, 081 is cheap, etc.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #24 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 6:10pm
 
jrawle wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 5:56pm:
However, freephone numbers do fit in logically if 080 is to be free, 081 is cheap, etc.


Why does it make sense for 0800 to be under a code prefix also used for chargeable services???

It would make far more sense to revert 0800 to Freephone only use and then move all the chargeable 084/8 services on to an 04 code with number allocations banded by cost levels.

You only think 080 at 0p is sensible because you have been prepared to accept the illogical basis on which the Ofcom goalposts have been erected.  But allowing the 084/7 scammers to stay put will mean them also being able to rely on the longstanding miseducation of the public that these numbers are charged as local/national rate calls.  Even if weak, weedy and spineless Ofcom finally manages to find a way to stop BT and other still describing 084 and 087 as Lo-Call and National Rate.

No make all the 084/7 scammers suffer and force them to get a new number that alerts the public to there having been a change is what I say.  And this time Ofcom should be forced to take out tv and press advertising alerting the public to the basis on which its new system is being imposed.
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GrahamH
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #25 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 7:02pm
 
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No make all the 084/7 scammers suffer and force them to get a new number that alerts the public to there having been a change is what I say.  And this time Ofcom should be forced to take out tv and press advertising alerting the public to the basis on which its new system is being imposed.


And then prove that the message has sunk in with Joe Public. This isn't difficult - brand owners do it all the time. You can bet BT knows exactly how many people can accurately reel off the benefits of their latest wheeze, and for that matter how many DON'T know about the downsides.

The difficult bit is persuading OFCOM that clear communication matters - even though you'd think the Office of Communication would see it as a vital deliverable!
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What's the point of 0845? Local rate my ar$e. Usually MORE than Inverness to Penzance on normal nos. Occasionally the same, never less!&&&&OFCOM - A Truly Great Regulator, if you're out to gouge consumers
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #26 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 7:53pm
 
GrahamH wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 7:02pm:
The difficult bit is persuading OFCOM that clear communication matters - even though you'd think the Office of Communication would see it as a vital deliverable!


Their dictionary's definition of communication seems to be the same as the one for exploitation in most other people's dictionaries. Wink Grin
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Tanllan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #27 - Feb 24th, 2006 at 11:45pm
 
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It would make far more sense to revert 0800 to Freephone..
And, of course, we might revert to 080 being free - from all payphones and mobiles - indeed everywhere. As well as accessible from abroad at an appropriate international rate.
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« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2006 at 12:01pm by Dave »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #28 - Feb 25th, 2006 at 12:30am
 
Tanllan wrote on Feb 24th, 2006 at 11:45pm:
And, of course, we might revert to 080 being free - from all payphones and mobiles - indeed everywhere. As well as accessible from abroad at an appropriate international rate.


Surely not when the scammer's friend Ofcom is not going to even insist on the mobile phone companies providing all their Pay As You Go customers with access to their call records and call charges history? Roll Eyes
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Tanllan
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Re: Ofcom review of UK Telephone Numbering Plan
Reply #29 - Feb 25th, 2006 at 12:32pm
 
Tks, NGM; one more for the response as part of the overall plan.
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