SAYNOTO0870.COM - Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices

gdh82

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 226

Re: Deregulation of BT prices * DEADLINE THIS TUES
Reply #15 - May 29^th, 2006 at 7:53pm

bbb_uk wrote on May 29^th, 2006 at 7:13pm:

Now is it just me or is is that not one of those questions asks which of the four options you think is better?

Good point, bbb_uk. I think if you re-read this consultation using invisible ink reader you get the following question...
Quote:

2. Do you agree with our conclusion, and the assessment on which that conclusion is based ? (You may comment on any or all of the four options but don't go thinking we're take the slightest bit of notice because this decision has already been made!)

(Sorry, couldn't resist that)

Seriously, though, could anyone give me some guidance on the first question asking if other forms of regulation should be considered ?

Back to top

« Last Edit: May 29^th, 2006 at 7:56pm by gdh82 »

There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc

IP Logged

gdh82

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 226

Re: Deregulation of BT prices * DEADLINE THIS TUES
Reply #16 - May 29^th, 2006 at 8:31pm

Could I also ask, are the following covered by the Retail Price Controls:

Quote:

10. Introduction of call return fee of 6p for pressing 3 after 1471
11. Introduction of call return fee of 7.5p for pressing 0 after 1571

If not, then surely they should be! Whilst the consultation document flatters BT with its reducing revenues per call minute, it makes no mention of the above price increases (not to mention most of the others raised by bbb_uk above).

Back to top

« Last Edit: May 29^th, 2006 at 8:31pm by gdh82 »

There's more of us that them, stick together and challenge 0870/0845 etc etc

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Deregulation of BT prices * DEADLINE THIS TUES
Reply #17 - May 30^th, 2006 at 12:40pm

Some of my thoughts on this:

How and why define 'vulnerable' groups? Is this because big business isn't interested in low users? The Light User Scheme is for people who use the telephone very little. What about people who just have a line, make few calls, but use the internet and/or a mobile? The basic line rental is now 50% more than it used to be two years ago! So why not just prevent BT from increasing its basic line rental package (currently BT Together Option 1) even more. After all, it wouldn't put it up even more, would it?!?
Competition appears to be diminishing as the likes of Talk Talk take over Onetel and Tele2. Similarly, did we not start off with many (local?) cable companies; and, following the merger, now we have one: NTL Telewest.
Only BT must allow connections to prefix code call providers such as 1899. How is this free competition? If we are going to have a (supposedly) level playing field with regards line rental, then how come we don't have one with regards this? If all providers allowed access to them, then more people may look at moving.
Quote:
2.12 The RPC also includes a specific requirement on BT to ensure that its average retention on calls to mobiles to a given mobile operator across all charging periods within a twenty-four hour period is within five per cent of its retention to any other mobile operator. Given that this provision is not a stand-alone requirement, but rather part of the overall RPC (BT's retention on calls to mobiles in general falls within the basket of services currently covered by the RPC), it will also expire on 31 July 2006.

What does this mean and what will this mean for mobile charges?
Is it possible to have broadband from any supplier when taking line rental from BT Wholesale provided lines such as Post Office? Is this at the discretion of the telco?

Back to top

« Last Edit: May 30^th, 2006 at 1:07pm by Dave »

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #18 - May 31^st, 2006 at 8:40pm

A couple more points:

Apparently BT's line rental has traditionally made a loss that was made up by higher priced calls. Should it really cost £11 a month for a basic telephone line?
In answer to question 1 about other regulation that Ofcom should consider I said that all providers should allow connections to access codes like 1899. It leaves a somewhat uneven playing field, and the cheapest is often to go with different suppliers for different calls. Using a BT Wholesale supplier, LLU telco or cable leaves the subscriber with less choice.
Ofcom has done research that shows that most people are aware that they have a choice of different suppliers. With some not allowing access codes to be called, what's the point of them?

Back to top

IP Logged

bbb_uk

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 2,041

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #19 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 6:27pm

I said something similar in my response. For us consumers to get the best deal for each type of call then we have to use more than one teleco but can only do this using BT and BT are aware of this so what incentive have BT got to keep linerental as it is? None. This was proven with the latest linerental increase which only applied to Option 1 customers and as I mentioned earlier, competition doesn't appear to be working otherwise BT's main competitors wouldn't have increased their linerental to match BTs - just where is the competition in that?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 9,902
Yorkshire
Gender: male

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #20 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 8:25pm

The Ofcom document suggested that keeping BT's basic package price regulated would stifle 'innovation'.

Quote:

4.29 Ofcom recognises that there would be a risk of leaving some user groups exposed in the event that a control was imposed solely on access prices, and a safeguard cap on both access and calls would alleviate this. However, there is a balance to be struck as to the appropriate level of regulation. A disproportionate approach may stifle innovation and may result in BT offering discounts only to high users on non-regulated tariff packages, while maintaining current prices of regulated services. This would not necessarily protect those consumers on whom Ofcom’s concerns are focussed. Ofcom considers that a control on access and calls in this way would be disproportionate in a similar way to rolling over the existing price controls.

But a basic telephone line is the starting point for a telephone service. How can BT use 'innovation' to improve such a basic service? The fact is that things like caller display should be included at no extra cost. To charge for such a service in this day and age is daylight robbery.

This word 'innovation' is a load of nonsense. It is 'innovation' that has created BT Together packages, and a weak regulator that allowed BT to remove BT Standard making it the basic (new standard) package.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices Reply #21 - Jun 1^st, 2006 at 9:49pm Responses have been published online here.
Back to top	IP Logged

bbb_uk

Global Moderator

Offline

Posts: 2,041

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #22 - Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 6:39pm

I liked the UKCTA response and from it I quote:-

Quote:

We find it quite bizarre that Ofcom on the one hand proposes to lift the price controls but on the other hand, believes that it is necessary to extract undertakings from BT to ensure that the incumbent does not raise its line rental price and passes through cuts in mobile termination rates. The fact that these undertakings are thought to be necessary must surely be a clear indicator, if not the clearest, that it is actually too early to lift the price controls in the first place.

and the Citizens Advice Bureau and from it I quote:-

Quote:

We therefore welcome the voluntary assurances gained from BT that provide additional protection for such low spending consumers. However, since the precise details of such assurances are not publicly available it is difficult to give a definitive view as to whether they will be sufficient to ensure that such customers are adequately protected.

The majority of responses indicated they did agree with removing regulation controls but didn't feel the time is right stating that BT still have enough SMP to increase line rental (this appeared to be the main concern) and obviously without knowing the so-called "assurances" BT had given Ofcom, they were not prepared to support Ofcom's recommended option 4 without clear controls of somekind in place to protect consumers.

I especially liked what UKCTA had to say (highlighted) which if I'd thought about it, I would have mentioned also. It is clear that Ofcom does have some concerns otherwise it wouldn't even have to consider getting these secreative "assurances" from BT!

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 2^nd, 2006 at 6:42pm by bbb_uk »

IP Logged

kk

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 354
Gender: male

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #23 - Jun 4^th, 2006 at 12:05pm

At the beginning of BT’s response to the Ofcom consultation is an invitation to comment. Comments are to be send to Neena.Rupani@BT.com

This gives an opportunity to send any comments to BT direct, an opportunity not to be missed.

I suppose the deregulation of BT’s prices falls into three areas:

Line rental
Cost of 01/02 calls
Cost of 084x, 087x, 070 and 09

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jun 4^th, 2006 at 12:48pm by kk »

KK

IP Logged

bbb_uk Global Moderator Offline Posts: 2,041	Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices Reply #24 - Jul 19^th, 2006 at 5:43pm Well as posted in another thread and mentioned by some forum members like Orsankart, Ofcom have announced their decision on BT's regulatory controls. See Ofcom's full response here.
Back to top	« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2006 at 5:55pm by bbb_uk » IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan Ex Member	Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices Reply #25 - Jul 19^th, 2006 at 9:36pm I don't suppose it took any notice of comments made by members of the general public who responded to the consultation?
Back to top	IP Logged

kk

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 354
Gender: male

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #26 - Jul 19^th, 2006 at 11:21pm

Yes NGM - Ofcom, have ignored most of the responses and cite the few responses that support Ofcom’s position.

Quote .....

“Consultation responses and Ofcom’s decision.

1.15 A range of responses was received to the March Consultation. Ofcom has considered and analysed them in light of its statutory duties. Many of the responses, including those from BT, the Scottish Executive, the Welsh Assembly Government and the Communication Workers Union provide support for Ofcom’s proposal.”

.... End quote

Many ? ?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2006 at 11:25pm by kk »

KK

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #27 - Jul 20^th, 2006 at 12:44am

Oh well at least I didn't waste any more of my time responding to it then.

I used to take Ofcom's consultations seriously foolishly thinking that if enough people expressed strongly minded views that Ofcom would have to change their mind. However once I realised that Ofcom was a Stalinist organisation that only goes through the motions of consulting while continuing only to implement the favoured plans of its political masters I began to realise that the only purpose of responding was for there to be a public accessible record of one's own views to other respondents to the consultation.

Ofcom is a New Labour Body of the very worst kind. See http://www.newlabourscandals.co.uk/bodies.htm

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 20^th, 2006 at 9:19am by N/A »

IP Logged

kk

Senior Member

Offline

Posts: 354
Gender: male

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #28 - Jul 20^th, 2006 at 8:57am

It is becoming obvious that all Ofcom’s consultations (and Ofcom itself), which cost a considerable amount, are a waste of taxpayers money. A complain should be made to the Audit Commission.

It is interesting to note that the Welsh and Scottish governments can have a say, but unfortunately England does not have the same voice.

Back to top

KK

IP Logged

NonGeographicalMan

Ex Member

Re: Ofcom Consultation: Deregulation of BT prices
Reply #29 - Jul 20^th, 2006 at 9:21am

kk wrote on Jul 20^th, 2006 at 8:57am:

It is becoming obvious that all Ofcom’s consultations (and Ofcom itself), which cost a considerable amount, are a waste of taxpayers money. A complain should be made to the Audit Commission.

And/or the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards. (Parliamentary Ombudsman)

Things may perhaps improve a little once Mr Stephen Carter is sent packing (or according to him leaves voluntarily) shortly.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Jul 20^th, 2006 at 9:22am by N/A »

IP Logged