Dave wrote on May 5^th, 2006 at 6:26pm:


I can't see why it needs reconsidering Dave?  Its obvious the real reason that 0845 was actually not migrated to geographic rates by the overpaid loafers at Ofcom was so as not to embarass the many government agencies like the Inland Revenue who had entered into long term commercial arrangements to have one with some ripoff telco or other.

I've been away from this site for a while and had honestly forgotten the difference between 0870 and 0871.  If I don't know the difference, how is the average member of the public to know the difference? It seems to me that most people will just notice vaguely that 0870 numbers are now 0871, assume that there is some sophisticated reason they don't understand, and then carry on regardless. If 0870 had been changed to 0900 people would have felt differently. This is the power of the ordinality of the number.

It is difficult to think of a number that could be more easily confused with 0870. 

Maybe it's time to wake up. We do not live in a democracy. We do not enjoy a free market. Our government does not represent us. We live in an oligarchy and the oligopolists run the show. What passes for democratic government is just a mediating institution between oligarchs and public that casts a web of charm over the public to create the illusion that it is being governed by its own representatives. In the end, the switch from 0870 to 0871 was simply a trick to preserve that illusion.

I don't agree with everything Karl Marx said, but I do think the following aphorism applies just as much to our times as to his.

"The executive of the modern state is but a committee for managing the common affairs of the whole bourgeoisie". (Marx, K, 'Communist Manifesto')

derrick wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2006 at 11:38am:


Since when was an 0871 number ever charged at something once misledingly called the BT National Rate?  That only applied to 0870 numbers.

It really is pathetic that so much time has to be wasted by the ASA and others pursuing these one by one because useless Ofcom cannot say if anyone does it in future they will get fined £10,000 on day one and £5,000 for each and every subsequent repeat of the advertisment.

If you don't buy your car tax disc or overstay on a parking meter you get fined, no excuses.  So why is it that large companies with teams of staff to check these things only get a polite rap over the knuckles and nothing else happens to them?

Of course we all know that even without the misleading claims it is National Rate that the average person calling these numbers will still think that it is.  Not only must they not say it is not National Rate - they must also say that it is 10p per minute at all times.

derrick wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2006 at 12:07pm:


My complaint against Sky Travel Shop on Sky Three claiming that their 0870 umbers were Charged at the National Call Rate is still ongoing several months after I first made the complaint.  Various pathetic excuses about difficulties in getting hold of a tape of the offending item etc, etc continue to be used by the ASA.

I will escalate to their ASA's CEO is this matter is not resolved very soon.

derrick wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2006 at 11:38am:
Yep, I'm the other complainant.

I'm relatively happy with the draft especially as they agreed they would include pricing information next time (probably wont though).  I feel it is useless pointing out that 0871 never was considered national rate even in the older days.  I was thinking of asking that they under the circumstances reconsider their (ASA) stance that only non-broadcast adverts have to mention the cost involved of calling these numbers whereas currently the broadcast adverts are under no such guideline.  I understand that for radio adverts it can harder due to time constraints to mention the cost but I personally can't see why the ASA non-broadcast guidelines on these numbers don't apply to TV adverts, at the very least anyhow.  I'm going to ask Ian (ASA person dealing with our complaint) if it could be passed on to the ASA Council or whomever else.  I plan on mentioning that Ofcom admit there is a lot of confusion over these prices and that Ofcom would like to see more price transparency for these calls which is what the non-broadcast ASA guidelines cover but TV adverts which get more exposure/coverage than non-broadcast adverts are currently exempt.  As I mentioned earlier, radio adverts could still be exempt for the time being.

I'm only recommending radio adverts are exempt because i'm a little more likely to get somewhere especially as Ofcom have already pretty-much told me the main reason for ASA adverts being exempt is due to radio airtime constraints.  This way it could be considered a compromise for the time being.

I'm going to do this via email as I have no intention (unless really needed) to do this via snail mail!

You may want to consider something similar but not too similar though!

bbb_uk wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2006 at 3:37pm:


Yes I will do something,it has to be within 7 days of the date of the letter