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This site and NGDs (Read 20,471 times)
scatman
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This site and NGDs
Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:07am
 
Could anyone explain to me why a site dedicated to the abolition of NGDs is advertising them on it's home page please?
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Keith
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #1 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:59am
 
There is a very good reason and I'm sure someone else who can explain the technical reasons why this happens re Google Ads better than me will respond.

However I would like to ask an added question:

As this is a very valid issue and as this gets asked repeatedly and if those asking it only represent a very small percentage of those who come into this site and wonder why this happens and as this would discredit the site in some eyes shouldn't a prominent explanation be put on the home screen to explain to all those new to the site why this happens.
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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #2 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:38am
 
Thanks Keith, I am sure it may be to do with Google ads or something (and I know this site has to be funded somehow) but that isn't really an excuse, as I am sure the technology exists to block certain ads from a site. After all, you are unlikely to see religeous sites with ads for porn. Presumably almost everyone who visits this site does so because they are fed up with paying for services which, morally, should be entirely free (as in paid for by the company as a cost of sale expense) For this site to allow, for any reason, ads which promote the very thing it exists to stop is at best embarassing and at worst hypocritical and more importantly damaging to the cause.

You are right though, the least we should see is a prominent and detailed explanation of why this cannot be avoided.
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andy9
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #3 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:47am
 
scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 11:38am:
You are right though, the least we should see is a prominent and detailed explanation of why this cannot be avoided.


http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1114723746
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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #4 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:17pm
 
Thanks for the link Andy9. It would seem that this debate has been going on for sometime. However none of the responses address the issue I raised before. That is that there must be some way of filtering out inappropriate adverts for sites with a particular focus. I repeat the religeon/porn example. If Google or any other ad provider is so all powerful that they can overide the needs of the site owner, then this whole site is pointless. We may as well not protest over anything anymore. The point is that the use of non geogriphic numbers is so abused that in any ethical society they should be banned. The only people who have a right to make money from provision of telephone lines are the service provider, and companies who offer non-essential services that we can choose to use or not e.g. directory enquiries and other informational databases that are saving us the trouble of looking something ourselves. This would/should exclude helplines, government bodies and people who want us to use them.  The owners of this site have an ethical duty to not propogate the use of NGDs in any way whatsoever.
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andy9
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #5 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:45pm
 
Most people can choose whether to read them, and your suggestion the whole site is pointless is rather over-dramatic.

Would you stop buying a newspaper or the Radio Times because of one advert from a product you did not like?

Google ads will always do contextual searches, and you could block them being displayed if you wished.
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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #6 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 1:24pm
 
Perhaps I am being over-dramatic, but yes one of the criteria I use for buying a newspaper is it's advertising tastes. This is because it sometimes (but by no means always) is an indicator of it's editorial policy. I do not buy the Sunday Mirror for instance because I can buy another paper without two pages of chatline and other adult services in a paper that my children can pick up and read. Perhaps I can block the ads myself (not that I know how) but surely you can see that that misses the point. This is not like a tv channel that you can choose not to watch. This site, and therefore this forum, exists to specifically reduce and eventually abolish the use of NGDs. It is incumbant on the site owners not to propogate the growth of that very thing in any way at all. That no effort is made to stop it or at least explain it, is quite frankly ridiculous and insulting to those of us who are trying to support the site and it's goals.
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andy9
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #7 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 1:40pm
 
When looking at this displayed page, I can read either your post or the adverts
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Heinz
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #8 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:08pm
 
andy9 wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 1:40pm:
When looking at this displayed page, I can read either your post or the adverts

What adverts?

I never notice them.

I come here for a purpose and that doesn't included reading adverts.
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:08pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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andy9
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #9 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:15pm
 
that's what I said
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scatman
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #10 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:17pm
 
Flipping heck! How many more times? Whole heap of point missing going on here! You wouldn't go to an anti-smoking clinic and expect to see the Marlborough Man on the wall! Or go to the dentist and see adverts sponsered by Cadburys and Coca Cola. Whether you see them or not, and whether you can turn them off or not, is irrelevent. They should not be here! If this forum is just going to be a load of angry people sounding off, I'm not gonna play anymore. Debate is good when it advances knowledge or advances a cause, but useless when you just going round in circles.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #11 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:21pm
 
scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:07am:
Could anyone explain to me why a site dedicated to the abolition of NGDs is advertising them on it's home page please?


I support the point you are making regarding the ethical inconsistency of the advertising on this website but can you tell me what you think you are referring to by NGD?  They are normally referred to as NGNs which stands for Non Geographic Numbers.
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Heinz
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #12 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:23pm
 
scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:17pm:
Flipping heck! How many more times? Whole heap of point missing going on here! You wouldn't go to an anti-smoking clinic and expect to see the Marlborough Man on the wall! Or go to the dentist and see adverts sponsered by Cadburys and Coca Cola. Whether you see them or not, and whether you can turn them off or not, is irrelevent. They should not be here! If this forum is just going to be a load of angry people sounding off, I'm not gonna play anymore. Debate is good when it advances knowledge or advances a cause, but useless when you just going round in circles.

I'm sorry, if you consider the wording of my post above classifies me as an 'angry person' who is 'sounding off' then, perhaps, not 'playing', as you put it, might be better.

My post was a statement, was not offensive and was not antagonistic.
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« Last Edit: Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:24pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
WWW  
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catcoddler
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #13 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:34pm
 
Scatman's argument reminds me of something which has been testing my ethics: if one is strongly against animals being used in labs for research, it is very unlikley that you can just enforce a ban without a long hard slog but - in the meantime - would it be justifiable for such a person to have shares in, say, Huntingdon LS so that your dividends or capital gain when selling them would be earmarked for donation to the ALF?  This is a matter of life and death, but the situation that Scatman's discussing, we all have the choice to read the posts, or be swayed by the ads, or do as I say, not as I do.  I like the idea of the member who suggested the get-your-own-back technique of giving orgs and co.s your own non geo number to call you on.  Though of course I would never do that .......
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NGMsGhost
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Re: This site and NGDs
Reply #14 - Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:35pm
 
scatman wrote on Feb 27th, 2007 at 5:17pm:
Flipping heck! How many more times? Whole heap of point missing going on here! You wouldn't go to an anti-smoking clinic and expect to see the Marlborough Man on the wall! Or go to the dentist and see adverts sponsered by Cadburys and Coca Cola. Whether you see them or not, and whether you can turn them off or not, is irrelevent. They should not be here! If this forum is just going to be a load of angry people sounding off, I'm not gonna play anymore. Debate is good when it advances knowledge or advances a cause, but useless when you just going round in circles.


scatman,

Edited:
NGMsGhost disagrees with the views expressed by andy9 and Heinz and considers that this website is wrong for promoting "products which are morally and ethically inconsistent with the aims of this site".

I cannot see how people can with a clear conscience lobby against the immorality of businesses having hidden premium rate numbers while this site then tries to derive an income from displaying click thru banner ads to the firms that sell them.  Also it has been explained before that Google does have a facility to block out appropriate ad banner links.  However the site owner has chosen not to make use of this.

I know you are a new forum member but have you not also already seen the horrible banner ads on the top of the page for "Grab A Grand" which lead to a very dubious website run by an outfit called www.winthecash.co.uk ; This professes to offer some form of free entry in a lottery syndicate but the main criteria for entry is to provide your name and email address.  Now you can only imagine what probably happens next in terms of your inbox then going crazy with unwanted share tips and viagra purchase opportunities.

I find the whole ethics of GrabAGrand and its slogan "Live A Little" thoroughly tawdry as you have almost no hope of winning the alleged prize (if it even exists) but the absolute certainty of disclosing your name and email address to this commercially dubious outfit concerned.

Unfortunately certain members of this site are more than a little blinkered in their outlook and all they want to do is avoid calling 084/7 numbers because it costs them personally money and they simply don't want to think about the wider ethical irrationality of this site promoting the very scam 084/7 numbers we hate calling or repeatedly promoting the Live A Little/Grab A Grand/Win The Cash grab your name and email address banner scam.

It seems some members of this site are motivated only by saving money and are utterly blind to the wider moral and ethical issues of the site promoting other commercial scams.

~ Edited by Dave: Personal comments edited out. Edits shown in edit box or italics.
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2007 at 5:14pm by Dave »  

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