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Surgeries saying no to 0844! (Read 117,713 times)
NGMsGhost
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #45 - Mar 5th, 2012 at 11:23pm
 
Dave,

If you are spending your own money to call these 0844 numbers to compare them with the geographic then you clearly deserve a recommendation for an order of sainthood in the service of the campaign against ripoff phone numbers.

Unless of course Daniel actually gives you a small allowance for doing this out of all that click thru revenue he must earn off the various Google ads on this website? Wink Undecided
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Dave
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NELFT says no to 0844...for the wrong reason
Reply #46 - Mar 11th, 2012 at 11:44am
 
This isn't a surgery saying "no" to 0844, but a Foundation Health Trust. North East London Foundation Trust (NELFT) currently uses a block of 0844 numbers and these are due to be replaced with 0300 ones on 2nd April.

Here is the recent news release:

Quote:
New telephone numbers at NELFT
2012-03-09 13:59:00

NELFT telephone numbers that currently begin 0844 600 will change to 0300 555 on 2 April.

Both the existing 0844 and new 0300 telephone numbers will work until the final switchover at the end of June.

NELFT trust head office number will change to 0300 555 1200.

Why we’re changing our numbers

We have decided to change the numbers in response to feedback from our service users.

Nowadays, many people prefer to call NHS services from mobile phones rather than landlines and 0844 numbers aren’t always included in call packages. This can make the calls more expensive than local numbers or 0300 numbers.

Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than calls to a local number beginning with 01 or 02 and are often included in inclusive minutes and discount schemes from phone providers.


The reason given for the change is clearly given as being feedback from users. It does not make any mention of the requirement to comply with the Directions to NHS Bodies concerning the cost of telephone calls, even belatedly. This came into force on 21st December 2009 and gave Bodies exactly a year in which to comply, but NELFT carried on in defiance.

Is this the future NHS where service providers respond to feedback from "customers" instead of the current one we have where the first principle is that services are free at the point of need, funded by general taxation?

Coming back to the subject of misuse of Business Rate phone numbers, the contact page states:

Calls from a BT landline will be charged at the standard local rate.
Calls from other landlines and mobile providers will differ in price.


The prefix used by NELFT is 0844 600 and this is g8 charge rate which is 1.02 pence per minute at all times from BT lines. The statement about price to ring the 0844 number is greater than the actual price as calls from BT are less than the "standard" local rate which is 4.032 pence per minute during weekday daytimes.

The reality is that since 2004 residential BT customers have not paid "standard" rates for geographic calls due to the fact that "discounted" Calling Plans (formerly BT Together Options) were made the norm. Of course, calls to NELFT's 0844 numbers have never been open to any BT discount, as by their very nature, BT discounts are not permitted as they would reduce to the level of Service Charge from which it benefits via its communications provider.


NELFT has clearly been one of those organisations that misuses Business Rate numbers, not only because being an NHS Body it shouldn't be levying a fee in the first place, but because it favours some customers of one particular telephone provider, when as a public service provider it should not be acting in such a way.

It lives in the dark ages by harping back to BT "standard" rates, which are essentially defunct "pre-competition" rates. To give it its due though, it does recognise that the charges made by other providers will differ. Many misusers simply say that others "may" differ.
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kasg
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Re: NELFT says no to 0844...for the wrong reason
Reply #47 - Mar 11th, 2012 at 5:54pm
 
Dave wrote on Mar 11th, 2012 at 11:44am:
To give it its due though, it does recognise that the charges made by other providers will differ. Many misusers simply say that others "may" differ.

On the other hand, in the news release they say "0844 numbers aren’t always included in call packages" whereas "0844 numbers are never included in call packages" would be somewhat more accurate!
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Dave
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #48 - Aug 17th, 2012 at 10:29am
 
Dr Cloak and Partners in Sunderland is changing from a 0844 number to 0191 number:

Quote:
I am delighted to report that we will soon be reverting back to an 0191 telephone number for the Practice. We did think we would have to wait until 2013 when our  present telephone contract expired but thankfully we have negotiated an earlier settlement.

There will no longer be a greeting of “Welcome to Dr Cloak’s surgery………….”  or telling you what number you are in the queue etc. which all cost you money. You will  only be charged from the moment you speak to one of our staff. If the lines are busy then you will hear the engaged tone.

I think you will agree that this is a step forward and it is all down to the feedback from our patients who have identified the problems we have had with the 0844 number over the past few years.

Watch this space for further details.
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NGMsGhost
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #49 - Aug 17th, 2012 at 11:41am
 
Dave wrote on Aug 17th, 2012 at 10:29am:
Dr Cloak and Partners in Sunderland is [url=http://www.cloakgp.nhs.uk/2012/08/0844-telephone-number/]I think you will agree that this is a step forward and it is all down to the feedback from our patients who have identified the problems we have had with the 0844 number over the past few years.


Rather a shame though that this alleged "step forward" was only necessary due to the previous huge "step backwards" caused by the economic illiteracy and/or financial greed of the doctors and practice manager running this GP practice. Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2012 at 11:41am by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #50 - Aug 17th, 2012 at 10:00pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 17th, 2012 at 11:41am:
Rather a shame though that this alleged "step forward" was only necessary due to the previous huge "step backwards" caused by the economic illiteracy and/or financial greed of the doctors and practice manager running this GP practice. Roll Eyes

Well said.

The following message has just been sent to the practice using its "comment form".

Quote:
It is disturbing to read that this practice is apparently unable to afford a fully functioned telephone system without the benefit of subsidy at the expense of patients.

Most telephone call plans include the cost of calls to geographic numbers at times when the subscriber uses their telephone. The cost of waiting in an orderly queue when the lines are busy is therefore generally zero, when a geographic number is used.

Whilst the cost of the system on a 0844 number was heavily subsidised, if not fully covered, by callers, the practice would itself have to meet the cost of a system that enabled queuing on a geographic number.

Unless patients have expressed a preference for re-dialling in the hope of getting through at busy times, it is unfair to perhaps imply that the practice is unable to provide a high quality telephone system within the terms of its NHS contract.

I do hope that patients have been told the truth about the situation and fully appraised of the options available to the practice.
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #51 - Aug 18th, 2012 at 2:59pm
 
SCV,

To be fair to the practice given the now despicable heights to which the BT Connection Fee has risen for out of bundle weekday daytime or weekday evening calls the practice may actually be doing anyone who does not have any Anytime calls package a favour by reverting to the former traditional system of playing an engage tone when all lines are busy.

Whilst many people do have Anytime call packages there are still many households composed of single working people out all day long who do only have free calls in the evening or at the weekend.  Thus even an 01/02/03 based queuing system would not be in the interests of this particular group.

All of these systems that answer calls where they were notf formerly answered like IVR systems and 1571 are deliberately designed to maximise Connection Charge revenue and blackmail relatively low volume domestic telephone users in to having to take any Anytime Calls package.

The record of the regulator here is a total disgrace (in not price capping connection fees that bear no relationship to underlying wholesale costs of the calls) and it is simply unbelievable that BT Wholesale/Openreach is still allowed to charge the retail telephone companies customers' an extra monthly fee for the provision of CLI data that has always been free on mobiles since the inception of the GSM network.  That CLI data which BT charges for is also highly deficient compared to mobiles since it does not include CLI data for overseas calls from mobile phone numbers (unlike mobile to mobile international calls)
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #52 - Aug 18th, 2012 at 5:33pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Aug 18th, 2012 at 2:59pm:
… To be fair to the practice …

I hope that the comment quoted above allows due consideration for the possibility that the patients at the practice in question have expressed a general preference for re-dialling.

I have to admit to being unsure about how many people mistakenly believe that the Unlimited Anytime plan is only suitable for those who make many weekday daytime calls. The break-even point is very low and daytime now extends to 7pm. Many of those who opt only for the Evening and Weekends (or Weekend only) plan, do so because they use their mobile phone for daytime calls. Both BT and Virgin Media have assured me that the overwhelming majority of daytime geographic calls are made under the terms of a call plan.

There are however exceptions. If there are a considerable number of patients who pay for calls to geographic rate numbers, then it could be very difficult for a practice to make a determination about which option is best. I am concerned that the practice in question may have suggested that queueing can only be done with premium charges in place.

We know that Ofcom does not like fixed call setup fees. It may be that when the "Access Charge" element of the "unbundled tariff" comes into effect (with setup fees prohibited) then the same principle will be applied to the "penalty charges" levied for otherwise inclusive calls to geographic numbers.


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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #53 - Oct 29th, 2012 at 12:51pm
 
Poplar Grove Practice in Aylesbury changed back to a geographic number on 1st July:

...
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #54 - Nov 8th, 2012 at 10:40am
 
Munro Medical Centre has changed its number from a 0844 one to a 01775 one.

A story from the Spalding Guardian:

Victory claimed as medical centre ditches “expensive” phone number
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #55 - Nov 24th, 2012 at 3:12pm
 
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #56 - Dec 8th, 2012 at 5:49pm
 
Thornhills Medical Practice, Larkfield, Aylesford, Kent have ended their 0844 contract early, and were due to swap to an 01732 number in December 2012, but this is now delayed for 6 weeks.

http://www.thornhillsmedical.nhs.uk/userfiles/image/Statementrenewtelephonesyste...

Yet again, no mention that the DoH banned 0844 numbers in April 2010. Additionally, no mention of the 0344 alternative that would allow them to keep the same equipment with all its current features.
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« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2012 at 5:50pm by catj »  
 
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #57 - Dec 10th, 2012 at 12:30am
 
Dave wrote on Nov 24th, 2012 at 3:12pm:


From that site it would appear, years after the numbers in London all changed to start with 020, they STILL cannot print them correctly...

"Kes Howe is the IT manager at Woodcote Group Practice, which publishes an 0844 number on its website and an 0208 number on NHS Choices."

0208... erm no that would be 020 8.

Angry
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catj
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #58 - Dec 10th, 2012 at 12:43am
 
London hasn't changed to 020. It says so right here...

http://www.theargus.co.uk/li/style_guide/style_guide_q_t/

Scroll down to  telephone numbers.
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #59 - Dec 11th, 2012 at 7:17am
 
The Torrington Park practice in north London has done the right thing after many years of first 0870 and then 0844 numbers. Unfortunately they still display the 0844 numbers on their main pages and don't know how to format 020 numbers. http://www.torringtonparkgrouppractice.nhs.uk/?seo=contact-finding-us&navid=4853...

This quote was seen on a small scrolling display:

Quote:
We have a new phone number! Patients can now call on 0203 667 5030
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