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BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service. (Read 29,523 times)
Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #30 - Jun 29th, 2019 at 10:52pm
 
Very true. The Post Office, for example, has a couple of 'bolt-ons' giving anytime calls to UK mobiles: 100 minutes for an extra £3 a month and 500 minutes for £8. Until very recently, they even gave inclusive calls to UK mobiles and international numbers at the weekend (6pm Friday to 6am Monday, a very long weekend), as well as inclusive 0845/0870 in all plans. The latter is now only available on their Anytime and Anytime Plus plans.

Ironically, if BT's call barring features do indeed block calls to all 08 numbers other than Freephone, the inclusive 0845/0870 calls might no longer be connected!
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« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2019 at 10:55pm by Trenod »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #31 - Jul 1st, 2019 at 1:09am
 
I note interesting discussion and comments, whilst still awaiting an answer from BT - with due patience.


There is one question, on which I would appreciate some reassurance.

I assume that there is an issue with a family member or another user of a BT line who is unable to show due discretion when deciding which numbers to call. It is a reasonable request to seek an understanding about what improper (or undesired) behaviour will be prevented by use of the "premium rate" call barring feature.

Can I be reassured that there is such a genuine situation behind this, or is this just a matter of general interest?
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Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #32 - Jul 16th, 2019 at 11:17pm
 
There are two reasons I asked. Firstly, I have a relative, who lives with me sometimes, who cannot be trusted to use the phone responsibly or to seek permission before dialling. Secondly, I often receive junk calls that caller display identifies as 'international' or beginning with '09' (possibly spoofed IDs) and would not want to dial such numbers accidentally when navigating through the list using the small buttons on my slimline phone, as no doubt a charge would be generated (whether the numbers were 'real' or not).

Incidentally, I note that I stated incorrectly in my post of 28th June that BT's minimum monthly charge for one calling feature is £5.75. It's actually £5.50. I can no longer edit the post.
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Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #33 - Aug 26th, 2019 at 11:52pm
 
The latest BT agent I spoke to about this was, typically, unable to clarify exactly which numbers are covered by the bar, but encouraged me to make some test calls and inform them of any unwanted charges. So, I cautiously began dialling an 0901 number. To my surprise, the call disconnected when I dialled the fourth digit after the 0901 prefix (the 'call disconnected' tone sounding for exactly one minute). I then dialled an 0902 number and the same happened. I worked my way through 0844, 0845, 0870, 0871, 0872 and 118. Of all the examples I tried, only 0871 numbers similarly disconnected (following the third digit after the 0871 code - not the fourth as with 09 numbers, for some reason). All the other calling codes I tried allowed me to dial to the penultimate digit of the number. I then, obviously, hung up before risking a charge (though 0845 and 0870 are, of course, inclusive with BT and I didn't really expect them to be barred).

I can't find any 0842, 0843 or 0873 numbers to try (do they even exist?), but I'll be willing to bet they're not covered by the bar either.

To summarise: BT's 'International and Premium Rate Call Barring' feature only appears to bar calls to 0871 and 09 numbers. Plus international numbers, of course (calls to the latter disconnecting after one has dialled the country code or a few digits thereafter). That's pretty poor for a feature normally charged at £1.85 a month. I suppose it's possible that the exact numbers covered vary by exchange and perhaps that's why BT keep quiet about it. Another theory is that 0871 and 09 are long-established codes (dating from the late 90s/early 00s) and BT simply haven't got round to updating the call barring technology at their exchanges to cover the newer 0872, 0873 and 118 numbers - all of which are defined as 'premium rate services' by Ofcom, presumably because they are all regulated by the Phone Standards Authority (along with those strange 070 numbers). 084 numbers are outside the PSA's remit and it's therefore, I suppose, a bit of a 'stretch' to expect them to be covered by such call barring features.

It's frustrating that so much confusion continues to abound over the term 'premium rate'. Even Ofcom are vague on the matter, saying that such services "usually operate on numbers beginning 09, 118, 087 or five or six digit mobile voice and text shortcodes". "Usually" isn't good enough. The Government website has a useful table of UK telephone numbers, clearly showing those which are PSA-regulated, but even that only uses the term 'premium rate' to define 09 numbers specifically. My wish is for all four PSA categories to be officially classified as 'premium rate', according to different charge bands: the lowest (i.e. cheapest) being 0871 numbers (PR1), with 118 numbers the highest (PR4). That would be too simple, right?

Links:
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/p...
https://www.gov.uk/call-charges
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Ian01
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #34 - Aug 27th, 2019 at 2:16am
 

There are plenty of 0843 numbers out there, along with many 0844 and 0845. These numbers do fall under PSA regulation but only when used for chatlines, call connection services, or internet diallers.

0870 numbers also come under PSA Regulation, this since 1 July 2015. This was when the call charges were changed to match those on the 0871 and 0872 ranges. As before, chatlines, call connection services and internet diallers are covered irrespective of cost, but the main focus of regulation is all 087 numbers with a Service Charge of more than 7p per call or per minute.

The 09 ranges are the traditional premium rate numbers. These now cover 090, 091 and 098. PSA regulation is as before, the named specific types of service at any cost and then all other numbers with a Service Charge of more than 7p per call or per minute.

All numbers starting 084, 087, 09 or 118 are premium rate. The premium is the additional Service Charge paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider. Services covered by PSA regulation are known as Controlled Premium Rate Services, thus CPRS is a subset of PRS.

The worst case scenario is the call bar covers only 0871 and 090. Did you try any 091 or 098 prefixes? In all cases, you need to try a number that is known to be allocated and working.

Be aware the GOV.UK call charges page is riddled with errors and the call charges are incomplete and out of date. It has been incorrect for more than five years. Ofcom's call charge page has been updated in the last week or so. This one is much better but still has a few issues, not least failing to make crystal clear which calls are normally inclusive in allowances.

The 070 range will cease to be premium rate on 1 October 2019. Changes by Ofcom will cut the wholesale cost from 40p (£0.40) per minute to less than 0.48p (£0.0048) per minute. This will allow landline and mobile providers to include calls to 070 numbers in allowances on the same basis as calls to UK mobile numbers or otherwise charge calls to 070 numbers at the same rate as calls to UK mobile numbers.

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« Last Edit: Aug 27th, 2019 at 1:38pm by Ian01 »  
 
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Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #35 - Aug 27th, 2019 at 2:32pm
 
Ian01: Thanks for the information. I feel both enlightened and ever more confused!

I didn't try 091 or 098, as I couldn't find any examples via Google or indeed searching this forum. Same with 0842, 0843 and 0873. If you can supply an example of each, I'll gladly attempt to dial them and see what happens.

Having said that, 084 and 087 numbers in general seem to have become much rarer since the introduction of 03 as an inclusive non-geo alternative.

I take it this is the Ofcom page you reference?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/costs...
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Ian01
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #36 - Aug 27th, 2019 at 5:37pm
 

Yes. That is the Ofcom page.

There are no 0842 or 0873 numbers in use yet. Those are the next prefixes reserved for when (and if) 0843 and 0872 run out - but that may well never happen.

Usage of premium rate 084 and 087 numbers is in rapid decline. Their use is now banned for most purposes with most former users swapping to the exactly matching 034 or 037 number. Others moved to free 080 numbers or to other 03 numbers.

You won't find any 09 numbers on this website. SayNOto0870 is all about finding replacement numbers for inappropriate usage of 084 or 087 numbers.

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Ian01
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #37 - Aug 28th, 2019 at 10:59pm
 

This Wikipedia Template page lists all the prefixes in use in the UK (ignore 0342/0842 and 0373/0873 as previously discussed).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom

You'll need the various 08xx and 09xx entries near the end of the page.

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kasg
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #38 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 1:55pm
 
Ian01 wrote on Aug 28th, 2019 at 10:59pm:
This Wikipedia Template page lists all the prefixes in use in the UK (ignore 0342/0842 and 0373/0873 as previously discussed).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Telephone_numbers_in_the_United_Kingdom

I just deleted 0500 from this page. I'll probably get told off and the edit reverted knowing my luck  Smiley
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Ian01
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #39 - Aug 30th, 2019 at 2:52pm
 

Difficult call as the 0500 entry linked to a page that explained the details of the change.

However, as it has been gone more than two years now, it was probably the right thing to do.


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Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #40 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 6:37pm
 
Ian01: Thanks for the information and for the useful Wikipedia link.

Interesting to learn that 0842 and 0873 are not yet in use; also that there are as many as seventeen 09xx prefixes. Do you happen to know if they are all currently in use?

I finally found an 'official' (i.e. not junk or spoofed) 0843 number to call on De'Longhi's website: 0843 362 2013, which I dialled to the penultimate digit without being disconnected. Therefore, I think we can safely say that the only premium rate numbers barred by BT's 'International and Premium Rate Call Barring' (network controlled) feature are those beginning with 0871 and 09. I assume that 'Call Barring' (customer controlled) option 7 does exactly the same thing, but who knows? BT's calling features user guide (last updated in 2017) suggests that option 4 (operator calls) will also bar 118 500, but I can't find any user evidence to support this.

It's worth noting that BT will bar calls to 09xx numbers free of charge, though it's very well concealed on their website (and erroneously states that "Premium rate numbers begin with’09’."). Even BT can't get this right!

If I were paying £1.85 a month for 'International and Premium Rate Call Barring', I'd be pretty annoyed that it only bars 0871 numbers in addition to 09. As with 'Choose to Refuse', BT should not be charging a penny for a feature which has quite simply not kept up with the times. They should be called to account for this.

Incidentally, I believe De'Longhi are being a bit naughty in using (or at least advertising) 0843 and 0844 numbers for aftersales purposes?

Links:
https://www.delonghi.com/en-gb/customer-experience/contact-us-

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/63523/~/premium-rate-service-call...

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9061/~/user-guides-for-phones-and...
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« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2019 at 6:40pm by Trenod »  
 
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Ian01
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #41 - Sep 1st, 2019 at 8:47pm
 

To be clear, when you mention "09" in connection with BT's Premium Rate Call Barring Service, are you referring to "090, 091 and 098" or to just "090"?


All of the prefixes (except 0342/0842 and 0373/0873) mentioned on the Wikipedia list are in use.

BT gives a much more detailed list of 08 and 09 number ranges that are in use:
https://www.bt.com/pricing/current/Call_Charges_boo/1632_d0e1.htm#1632-d0e1
https://www.bt.com/pricing/current/Call_Charges_boo/1633_d0e1.htm#1633-d0e1

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« Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2019 at 8:53pm by Ian01 »  
 
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Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #42 - Sep 2nd, 2019 at 12:46pm
 
I have no idea. I just posted a link to BT's "Premium rate service call barring" page, which says: "To avoid racking up big charges for these services, you can arrange to bar premium rate calls to 09 numbers free of charge by calling 0800 800 150."

I would assume that means all numbers beginning with '09', regardless of the rest of the prefix?
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Trenod
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #43 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:13pm
 
Ian01 wrote on Jun 29th, 2019 at 10:27pm:
BT is now the ONLY major landline provider to NOT include calls to UK mobile numbers starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079 within their inclusive call plans.


They do now! But not if you're on Home Phone Saver.

www.bt.com/landline/deals
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2019 at 7:18pm by Trenod »  
 
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Ian01
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Re: BT Launch New Home Phone Saver Service.
Reply #44 - Oct 20th, 2019 at 8:08pm
 

That is a major change to all of the BT tariffs. There are a huge number of discrepancies between the Price List and the Tariff Guide and a lot of unclear wording in the Tariff Guide.
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« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2019 at 11:11pm by Ian01 »  
 
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