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NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investigation (Read 510,430 times)
pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #300 - Feb 14th, 2006 at 10:17pm
 
Quote:
Is Lewis thought to have been greedy with deciding to use the 50p per minute 070 numbers for incoming phone calls?

Oddly enough, there's no mention in the press reports of shareholders being concerned about Patientline's charges.  Smiley
Apparently the shareholders are worried about the share price having "plunged 83%, from a high of 162p to close at 27¼p last week, 4p off an all-time low", one 'aggrieved' shareholder being quoted as saying “there has been an enormous destruction in shareholder value. Someone has got to be held responsible".
Patientline obliged by announcing the appointment of a new Group MD to succeed the Chief Executive who "has left the company and the board" (and is presumably now eligible to be swallowed by a whale). It seems a little unusual to make such an announcement on a Sunday! This was immediately followed by an announcement of the board's unanimous support for Derek Lewis. (Credit Agricole immediately sold its 5% holding in the company.)
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« Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2006 at 10:21pm by pw4 »  
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #301 - Feb 14th, 2006 at 10:20pm
 
pw4 wrote on Feb 14th, 2006 at 10:17pm:
Patientline reacted swiftly to the report by announcing the appointment of a new Group MD to succeed the Chief Executive who "has left the company and the board" (and is presumably now eligable to be swallowed by a whale). It seems a little unusual to make such an announcement on a Sunday! This was immediately followed by an announcement of the board's unanimous support for Derek Lewis. (Credit Agricole immediately sold its 5% holding in the company.)


It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people. Wink Roll Eyes

As a Railtrack shareholder who didn't deserve to lose nearly all my money I feel no sympathy whatsoever for these reprobates.
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idb
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #302 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 2:48am
 
From The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=340512006

<<
HOSPITALS which make massive charges for car parking, telephone calls and TV are set to face a double Westminster investigation.

The House of Commons Health Select Committee has launched an investigation to the price of such "extras".

And this is expected to lead to Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt - in overall charge of UK health policy despite operational control being devolved to Holyrood - to make her own high-level inquiry into the effect of the charging policy set up before the Scottish Parliament started.

Already the Scottish Executive is under pressure over high charges at Edinburgh Royal Infirmary.

There, incoming calls to bedside phones cost up to 49p a minute compared to 22p a minute for a daytime outgoing call to Australia from a BT phone line.

Patientline also charges patients £3.30 a day to watch TV at eight Scottish hospitals. The Edinburgh Royal Infirmary charges £10 for six hours of parking - the highest in Scotland - while the city's Western General charges £7 for four hours.

The policy of charging was brought in in 2000 by the Westminster government which asked Patientline - headed by former prisons chief Derek Lewis - to provide entertainment and communication services at no cost to the NHS.
>>

Presumably another 'whitewash' will be the outcome.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #303 - Mar 7th, 2006 at 8:21am
 
idb wrote on Mar 7th, 2006 at 2:48am:
Presumably another 'whitewash' will be the outcome.


Inevitably this will be the case.  Especially if career ladder climbing Hewitt, who would cheerfully sell her own grandmother for the sake of another ministerial promotion, is involved.
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davis
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #304 - Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:20am
 
Article on Breakfast today about cost of dialling Patientline and similar services. Just caught a brief glimpse of Gordon (Brown) when asked about the cost ignored the question and went on to say that all treatment is free at point of delivery (why do we pay N I contributions?) The Hewitt said they would review costs I believe and a Hospital Manager somewhere (not using patientline but another service costing ONLY 30p per minuite for incoming calls) stated that he believed from that people were happy with the service. Numerous replies and e-mails to the Breakfast programme indicated otherwise. Did not catch quote in full but Gordon Brown appeared to say that decision to use patientline etc was nothing to do with government but a decision by the individual trusts, but thats what you would expect him to say.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #305 - Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:48am
 
davis wrote on Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:20am:
Did not catch quote in full but Gordon Brown appeared to say that decision to use patientline etc was nothing to do with government but a decision by the individual trusts, but thats what you would expect him to say.


Just as I suppose that Mr Stephen Carter and Mr David Currie at Ofcom will claim that the use of 0845 and 0870 numbers by numerous government departments and agencies is not the fault of their own lousy regulatory body in failing to make rules that stop such schemes but is in fact the fault of the individual trusts and agencies who have signed up to the scamming which the regulatory framework still permitted by Ofcom and originally created by its predecessor OFTEL in fact make legal.

In the world of New Labour if you get caught for your husband taking bribes from Sylvio Berlusconi you then claim you haven't talked to him about financial matters and have conveniently just decided to separate from him on hearing this news.  In fact in the world of New Labour it is only former Tory ministers or former Tory appointed QUANGO CEOs who are ever expected to be accountable for or take responsibility for any of their actions! Wink Roll Eyes  Being New Labour means that you can apparently do no wrong. Shocked
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pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #306 - Mar 8th, 2006 at 2:14pm
 
I'm quite baffled by the Scotman's article. The uncredited journalist seems to be both behind the times and confused, and not just in implying that the charges for phone calls and TV are levied by the hospital.

The Health Committee announced their enquiry into NHS Charges in October, and Derek Lewis gave evidence on 9th February, by which time Ofcom had sent its recommendations to the Department of Health. The latter set up a working party, so the Health Secretary is not likely to be making 'her own high-level inquiry'. Patricia Hewitt is not on the working party. Nor am I.

The last paragraph Quote:
The policy of charging was brought in 2000 by the Westminster government which asked Patientline ... to provide entertainment and communication services at no cost to the NHS
appears to be a reference to the Patient Power Project, under which at least seven companies have applied for and been granted licences.
It only applied to England.
In Scotland, any company can approach a hospital for a concession agreement.
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #307 - Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:41pm
 
From the Cambridge Evening News

Source: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/city/2006/03/08/3c139391-ab16-4ed9-948e-afd...

<<
HOSPITALS which make massive charges for car parking and telephone calls and televisions for patients are to be investigated.

The House of Commons Health Select Committee has launched an investigation into the price of such "extras".

And this is expected to lead to health secretary Patricia Hewitt making her own high-level inquiry into charges.

[...]

The cost of watching television and making phone calls at some hospitals has also come in for criticism.

In 2000, the Government asked Patientline - headed by former prisons chief Derek Lewis - to provide entertainment and communication services at no cost to the NHS.

But the £1 million installation costs can only be recovered by charging patients.

Addenbrooke's is one of nearly 160 UK hospitals in which Patientline operates. The standard charge for its television service is £3.50 a day and making phone calls from the bedside costs 10p a minute. Telephoning patients at the hospital costs 39p a minute off-peak and 49p at other times. Patientline gives each patient access to the internet, television, radio and telephone.

Labour MP Dr Howard Stoate, a member of the Health Select Committee and a former GP, said there were "huge inconsistencies" in charges around the country. He said: "We need a review because of the awful effects on the elderly and those with low incomes."

Age Concern said it had received complaints about excessive charging.

Andrew Lansley, shadow health secretary and MP for South Cambridgeshire, said: "There must be scope through competition to reduce the costs of telephone charges to hospital patients. Clearly 49p a minute for an incoming call is excessive.

"On car parking charges steps can also be taken. All hospital trusts must take steps to ensure that those who need the services don't have to pay disproportionately."

Patientline was recently cleared of ripping off patients in a report by O.com the UK communications regulator.
>>

An inquiry by Ms Hewitt?! One of our most upstanding and competent ministers, no less!
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #308 - Mar 8th, 2006 at 11:04pm
 
idb wrote on Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:41pm:
An inquiry by Ms Hewitt?! One of our most upstanding and competent ministers, no less!


Most competent at arguing that nothing New Labour has ever done has ever been wrong and that it is all the fault of the evil Tories who in fact left office back in 1997? Smiley
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #309 - Mar 9th, 2006 at 9:13pm
 
idb wrote on Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:41pm:
Patientline was recently cleared of ripping off patients in a report by O.com the UK communications regulator.
Did I miss something? I thought they were still looking into the investigation on the excessive charges?

Quote:
idb wrote on Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:41pm:
An inquiry by Ms Hewitt?! One of our most upstanding and competent ministers, no less!


Most competent at arguing that nothing New Labour has ever done has ever been wrong and that it is all the fault of the evil Tories who in fact left office back in 1997? Smiley
Ms Hewitt would probably then argue that the damage done was so bad that it has taken 9 years so far to rectify it all!  As if!

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« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2006 at 9:13pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #310 - Mar 9th, 2006 at 9:29pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Mar 9th, 2006 at 9:13pm:
idb wrote on Mar 8th, 2006 at 10:41pm:
Patientline was recently cleared of ripping off patients in a report by O.com the UK communications regulator.
Did I miss something? I thought they were still looking into the investigation on the excessive charges?

I think Ofcom passed the buck to DoH.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #311 - Mar 9th, 2006 at 10:31pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Mar 9th, 2006 at 9:13pm:
Did I miss something? I thought they were still looking into the investigation on the excessive charges?


Despite the empty assurances given to me at their NTS Consumer Workshop by senior Ofcom personnel that this time Ofcom would be taking tough action against Patientline they then rolled over and begged and passed the buck to the Department of Health for decision when knight hood and peerage wielding government ministers told Ofcom that this was what they wanted to happen. Wink Angry Angry
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #312 - Apr 15th, 2006 at 5:47pm
 
Source: http://www.lancashireeveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/newsheadlines/display.var.72985...

"Trust patience is running out" By Oliver Evans

<<
CASH-STRAPPED hospital bosses have hit out at a phone company which took 90 days to settle a £250,000 bill. [...]

And Trust bosses are understood to be furious over a delay in payment from communications firm Patientline which supplies phone lines, televisions, music and internet access to more than 150 hospitals in England.

The Trust said the company, which has been investigated by The Department of Health over its prices, took nearly three months to cough up just short of a quarter of a million pounds it owed it.

The Trust had been "actively pursuing" Patientline, for cable and phone line installation work at Blackburn's Queen's Park Hospital it commissioned on the company's behalf, a source said. [...]

The news comes during a difficult time for the company.

In January the communications watchdog the Office of Communications, Ofcom, said the Department of Health must look into all hospital phone systems as prices appeared "to be borne disproportionately by friends and family calling patients in hospital".

Over the last year Patientline has seen its value fall by 80 per cent and has failed to make a profit for the last five years.

Last week its chairman Derek Lewis stepped down, two days before a shareholders' meeting called amid growing investor unrest.

Patientline calls are up to five times more expensive than a BT payphone with people contacting their loved-ones charged a minimum 20p per minute.

External telephone calls to patientline handsets are 49p per minute in peak periods and 39p off peak. Patients must also pay £3.50 a day to watch television.

An East Lancashire Hospitals Trust spokeswoman confirmed the outstanding cash was finally in the bank.

"I am pleased to confirm that the issue regarding the outstanding payment for installation work at Queen's Park Hospital for Patientline has now been resolved. The Trust has received a cheque for the full amount of £246,922 and 73 pence," she said.
>>

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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #313 - May 10th, 2006 at 11:35pm
 
I don't think neither myself nor anyone else has posted this. Full transcript on the parliament web site.

CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL EVIDENCE To be published as HC 815-iii

House of COMMONS

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE

TAKEN BEFORE

HEALTH COMMITTEE

NHS CHARGES

Thursday 9 February 2006

DR LESTER ELLMAN, DR MAUREEN BAKER, MRS LYNN HANSFORD

and MR DAVID CARTWRIGHT

MR DEREK LEWIS, DAME GILL MORGAN and MS MAGGIE ELLIOT

MR BERNIE HURN and MR MIKE HALL

Evidence heard in Public Questions 299 - 530


USE OF THE TRANSCRIPT

1.
This is a corrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. This transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee, and copies have been made available by the Vote Office for the use of Members and others.

2.
The transcript is an approved formal record of these proceedings. It will be printed in due course.

[...]

Q455 Mr Amess: We have with us now this morning Mr Lewis and I am sure that what the Committee would really like to know is what really went on between him, Michael Howard and Miss Widdecombe, but we are not going to pursue those matters and we are going to talk about Patientline. Now, there has been some very, very tough stuff in terms of the criticism of Patientline, huge criticism about the costs of installation when you think that, with the technology developing, they are practically giving TVs and phones away, et cetera, so I think the first thing the Committee would like you to address is how you can defend the very, very high costs of installation.

Mr Lewis: Well, of course these systems are very sophisticated systems. These are not simply televisions and telephones at the bedside. When the so-called Patient Power programme, under which they are installed, was specified back in 2005 as part of the NHS Plan, what the NHS was then looking for was a device that would not only provide telephone, television, radio and so on, but would have the capability of doing a lot of other things, providing interactive services for patients at the bedside, being capable of providing access to electronic patient clinical records at the bedside for use by nurses and doctors, and being able to provide the mechanism for patients to order their food at the bedside for dietary management and so on. Therefore, the systems that have been installed are essentially a PC at every bedside and it is a specially designed PC for the hospital environment, as a result of which the cost of installation is high. It is typically about £1,750 per bed, all of which is funded by the providers who install them who additionally fund the operating costs and that involves having staff in each hospital, typically about five people in each hospital, who keep them clean, who maintain them and who look after patient needs in relation to them. That inevitably results in a substantial amount of cost being incurred. The UK is unique in that this particular type of sophisticated system is funded in this country in a way that it is not anywhere else and that is that at this point it is funded entirely through payments by patients and by their friends and relatives who make calls to patients. As you may be aware, Ofcom, which was still investigating the costs of incoming calls at the time we submitted our evidence to the Committee, has subsequently reported and has concluded that the charges for incoming calls were essentially an unavoidable consequence of the way the funding structure has been set up in the UK where the providers, as was recognised by the NHS at the time, had little choice but to recover the bulk of their costs from charges for incoming calls. The great opportunity, we believe, and we welcome the Ofcom report, is to extend the use of these systems for the purposes for which they were originally designed and selected so that the benefits extend well beyond those of patient entertainment and communication. We hope that the review group that is now being established by the Department of Health will indeed explore those further uses so that we can achieve a much more equitable spread of the cost of the systems between different users.

...
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #314 - May 10th, 2006 at 11:36pm
 
...

Q456 Mr Amess: You have really sort of guessed many of my questions really, including talking about Ofcom. In terms of the volume of complaints, have you had a lot of complaints about the cost of charges not only from patients, but from Member of Parliament?

Mr Lewis: I think it is important to say, first of all, that, by and large, there is a remarkably high level of satisfaction with these services on the part of patients, and the NHS itself conducted research about a year ago which indicated that 90% or thereabouts of patients were satisfied with the services that they received. There are obviously concerns about having to pay at all in the hospital environment within the NHS, but again, by and large, the majority of patients feel that the charges for television and for outgoing calls, which were deliberately capped as part of the original programme, are reasonable and they are happy to pay those. There have been complaints, and there has been quite a significant volume of complaints, about the costs of incoming calls which are set at a much higher level and which are now higher than the norm for telephone calls generally, and those complaints come from callers, friends and relatives who call patients and indeed from Member of Parliament who are reflecting the views of their constituents.

Q457 Mr Amess: In terms of the technology that you have available, would you share with the Committee what other services you feel you could provide and can you try and seduce us by saying that, if you did provide these extra services, in actual fact you would be saving money for the National Health Service?

Mr Lewis: A number of these services not only, in our view, would save money, but produce some significant improvements in patient care, patient satisfaction and indeed patient choice, but, with a PC at the bedside, the scope is very considerable. For example, and these are all things which are now being done, but not to the extent that we would like to see them done, there are two hospitals in the UK where patients now order their food on the system.

Q458 Mr Amess: Which are those hospitals?

Mr Lewis: They are in the north-east, North Tees and Hartlepool, the first two hospitals to do so. That brings a number of benefits: the information about the menu and its dietary parameters is easily available to the patient; they can order their food a very short time before the meal is actually delivered; it arrives at the right bed because they have not moved bed in the interim and that brings significant reductions in food wastage; it completely eliminates the need to print menu cards; changes to the menu can be done instantly; and it is a means of providing information about what food patients have ordered for the monitoring of their diet. In those two hospitals and the other hospitals that are now looking at it, there are some very tangible savings and clinical benefits.

Q459 Mr Amess: Will you answer the direct charge though that one of the reasons your expenses are so high is that you are not getting that which you thought you would from the National Health Service and it is the poor old patient who is lumbered with these costs?

Mr Lewis: I think there is an element of truth in that. When this programme was conceived, it was anticipated that things like food-ordering and access to clinical records at the bedside would be widely used and would generate a significant source of income for the providers. The development of that income has been much slower than was originally expected. Had that income developed at the pace that everyone expected at the time, we would have expected to have been able to reduce the level of incoming call charges by now.

Q460 Mr Amess: Do you think the current charging agreement does actually have a viable future or do you think the whole thing is going to have to be looked at again?

Mr Lewis: We believe it is viable, but unsatisfactory at present and we would very much like to see change and we hope, therefore, that this review group that is being set up by the Department of Health will, first of all, consider a wide range of options, will look at the way these services are funded in other countries which do not involve high levels of charges for incoming calls, will consider ways of encouraging other uses to the system, and also more effective operation on the boundaries between the services that the providers offer and the things that the hospital does. Our belief is that, if there is an open mind in approaching those issues, there are a number of ways in which those charges can be reduced and we very much hope that it will operate to a very tight timetable as it is not something we would like to see drift on for any great length of time and we would like it to work to conclusions within a few months so that we can actually implement some changes quickly.

...

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