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OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION (Read 367,855 times)
NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #360 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 4:49pm
 
I missed these weasel words in today's Ofcom statement - If providers wish to charge more for 0870 calls they will have to make a free-to-caller price pre-announcement at the start of the call

So some 0870 calls and only from January 2008 will be at 01/02 rates and some will be at premium chargeable services rates and the consumer won't have a clue which is which.  Its the equivalent of cans which both say Baked Beans on them having no prices on the shelves but then turning out to have different prices at the checkout at which point you are forcibly made to buy the one you chose and are not allowed to change your mind. Shocked Angry Angry Angry

Ofcom you are a complete and utter joke who rolls over and begs for almost any form of scam and ripoff that your old telco industry mates ask you to sign off and endorse. Angry Angry Angry
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Dave
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Re: VERY URGENT Consultation - Ofcom Consumer Poli
Reply #361 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 5:34pm
 
Quote:
Basically this is an effort by Ofcom to give itself a jolly big pat on the back by saying that its approach so far in avoiding almost any direct control of and/or regulatory sanctions against most telcos and instead concentrating on de-regulating to promote competition (you know the sort of thing with PostOffice, TalkTalk and BT all in a bidding war to acquire more customers while actually forcing up the minimum cost of line rental for most ordinary phone customers by 50%!) has been a big success and it should carry on with more of the same. ...

It will take another year and a half to *supposedly* do something about 0870 but the deregulation of BT's phone cost controls is, patentially, set for less than six months from now!
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« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2006 at 5:35pm by Dave »  
 
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bbb_uk
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #362 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 7:11pm
 
Quote:
I missed these weasel words in today's Ofcom statement - If providers wish to charge more for 0870 calls they will have to make a free-to-caller price pre-announcement at the start of the call

So some 0870 calls and only from January 2008 will be at 01/02 rates and some will be at premium chargeable services rates and the consumer won't have a clue which is which...
I also noticed the following (taken from here):-
Quote:
A significant number of SPs are likely to want to move from an 0870 number to a number on a different range, in order to be able to continue revenue sharing. The capacity of some of the alternative ranges, however, may be at or close to exhaustion, by the time the changes come into effect. Ofcom will therefore need to open up new revenue sharing ranges to accommodate the likely demand for numbers from those wishing to move away from 0870. This issue is being considered as part of the Numbering Review, which is due to be completed in July 2006..


He who takes it away, gives it back in another (stealth) form!
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« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2006 at 7:11pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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idb
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #363 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 9:54pm
 
I am sure I am not alone in saying that I was utterly astonished by Ofcom's statement on NTS published this morning. Whilst I have not yet had time to read the full statement, what I have seen so far indicates a total abdication of responsibility by Ofcom in providing protection to the long-suffering UK consumer and to help those of us that live overseas in being able to communicate with UK organizations. These proposals show a technically inept and morally bankrupt organization responsible for telecommunication regulation within the United Kingdom which repeatedly acts only in the service providers' interests. The most disturbing aspect is the requirement for ICSTIS to regulate 0871 numbers. This PRS regulator cannot even accommodate consumer complaints against premium SMS fraud, let alone increasing its workload for another range of scam numbers. The outcome is that 0870 is here to stay, perhaps not with the 0870 prefix, but Ofcom, by allowing eighteen months to 'migrate' (euphemism for change to a different scam range) will ensure that the scammers simply shift to whatever range will maximize their revenue. A total disgrace but largely expected. I cannot envisage ever responding to an Ofcom consultation again as my comments are simply ignored. The only solution now is for Ofcom and its useless sidekick ICSTIS to be disbanded and replaced with true independent regulators. This will never happen, so the campaign to rid the UK of this evil and corrupt industry has now, sadly, ended.
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idb
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #364 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 10:02pm
 
And, utter bull from ICSTIS:

http://www.icstis.org/pdfs1/0871_calls.pdf

In welcoming the announcement, ICSTIS Director George Kidd said: “The extension of our remit
by Ofcom reflects ICSTIS’ success in regulating the premium rate industry for the last 20 years.
This is positive news for the public. We want consumers to be able to use all, not just most, 0871
services with confidence. We feel sure that our independence, speed of action and our ability to
act against the minority who cause harm, combined with our readiness to work on appropriate
safeguards with all those affected by the changes, will help us achieve this
.”

Just who is Mr Kidd kidding? I have highlighted the two lies above.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #365 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 10:26pm
 
idb wrote on Apr 19th, 2006 at 9:54pm:
I cannot envisage ever responding to an Ofcom consultation again as my comments are simply ignored


idb,

Can I encourage you and others here who have responded to previous Ofcom consultations to make the effort to respond to just one more Ofcom consultation that closes today as this is Ofcom's consultation about the approach it takes to dealing with the best interests of Consumers.  I have been informed by someone in the know that if this consultation goes the way Ofcom hopes (i.e. almost no one responds and those who do are in favour) then Ofcom will just push ahead with more and more de-regulation and non intervention in the most vicious telecoms scams and cartels as being in the interests of uk citizen consumers.

Please reply telling Ofcom you have replied to several of its consultations and been completely ignored and that Ofcom by de-regulating is not encouraging more competition and a better deal for consumers but is in fact just making like easier for its old business chums in the telcos who devise these scams.

Point to the highest standing charge for any utility in the uk and up 50% since Ofcom was born and to the fact that unlike most other products consumers buy they generally do not know what they are paying for telecoms services and so do not make informed choices driven by normal market competitive forces.

I know you are tired of the evil, ruthless, abusive and cynical Ofcom consultation processes but if there is a consultation that lets you tell Ofcom why it is a totally morally bankrupt organisation full of extremely able but also entirely cynical and world weary people such as its Communications Director, who has sold out his once high ideals as a serious foreign news correspondent in favour of a high salary + large pension + nice office - then this is the one to do it with.  Mind you don't vent your spleen too much on Matt Peacock who I know is a decent guy with young children to support and who I only take to task because I feel that he is capable of and should be doing something better for the world and mankind.  Instead save your venom for the true villains like Stephen Carter, Ed Richards, Kip Meek and Sean Williams who have sold out every scintilla of principle they might have for the sake of a huge salary and a fast track to some kighthood or peerage from New Labour in a few years time if they are still in power.

I am sorry to have to personalise it this much but if Ofcom's directors aren't prepared to resign over introducing a regime that is this anti consumer and this pro big buisness scamming then they clearly cannot and are not men of principle and integrity.

By the way that last consultation it is essential to respond to is www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/ocp/
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kk
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #366 - Apr 20th, 2006 at 9:16am
 
From page 37 of THE  TIMES  20 April 06

Quote.....

Days are numbered for costly 0870 calls after Ofcom ruling


By Elizabeth Judge


The cost of calling numbers with the prefix 0870 will be slashed to the same price as regular national calls under a crackdown announced yesterday by the telecoms watchdog.

Under new rules, aimed at ending the widespread confusion over costs, mobile and fixed-line phone companies will be forced to charge the same, or less, for 0870 calls as they do for regular numbers.

Any companies that want to charge more must make a free announcement at the start of the call.
The practice of “revenue sharing”, which allows companies to boost their profits by replacing their traditional number with an 0870 number and forcing customers to call that number instead will also be scrapped. Businesses, doctors’ surgeries and government departments have introduced the numbers, prompting complaints from consumers. There have been accusations that callers are held-up unnecessarily on the line purely to help to boost profits.

In addition an 03 number range, which can be used countrywide but will be charged at a regular call rate, will be introduced. Ofcom hopes that public bodies and some businesses will swap to this number from 0870.

Consumers are estimated to have spent £1.5 billion in 2004 calling 0870 and 0845 numbers — almost £1 in every £5 spent on all landline phone calls.

Ofcom said that the changes should “significantly reduce” the price of calls to 0870 numbers.
It would also allow for 0870 calls to be included in call packages. At present they are usually exempt. However, the slow introduction of the changes — they will not take effect until early 2008 — will anger some consumer groups. Ofcom said phone companies needed time to implement them.

Both the prefixes 0845 and 0870 were intended at first to provide businesses with a memorable nationwide number. Calls, when the numbers were introduced ten years ago, were charged at a typical national rate for 0870 and a local rate for 0845.

But as competition has surged, and the cost of local and national calls has come down, these numbers are still being advertised that way — misleading customers and causing confusion. Calls to the numbers can now cost up to three times as much as contacting a regular number.

A daytime call to an 0870 number on BT’s most popular package costs 7.51p per minute compared with 3p a minute for calling a regular geographic number.

........ End quote.
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KK
 
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #367 - Apr 20th, 2006 at 3:54pm
 
Ofcom just can't help themselves can they be with being a totally hijacked regulator that while claiming to be there for citizen consumers is in fact there to let ruthless commercial interests jack up prices and exploit the consumer in every possible way imaginable.

Here is Ofcom's latest little contribution in this regard this time on the Freeview broadcasting side of affairs.  Apparently Ofcom sees no problem at all in channels like UK History, Sky Sports News, FTN etc all converting to Pay Tv channels just as Freeview was reaching a level of customer use (around 6 million homes) where a subscription channel on the platform like Eurosport or UK Style or UK Gold might have been on the verge of changing over to FTA.  We might even have seen some of the ghastly shopping channels knocked out by popular basic subscription channels like Bravo and Living Tv deciding to appear on Freeview funded purely by advertising.  But not now when there is a way to start charging £10 per month for the privilege.................

Good old Ofcom we really can count on them to protect the interest of the Citizen Consumer from commercial exploitation now can't we? Wink Angry Angry Angry

---Ofcom Announcement on More Pay Tv Channels on Freeview Follows----

Pay TV channels on multiplexes B, C and D
Removal of the ‘free to air only’ requirement
Summary
Background: Pay TV channels on multiplexes B, C and D

1.1 Traditionally, the majority of television viewers in the UK have watched analogue television channels delivered over the terrestrial transmission network. By the end of 2005, around 17.6 million homes could receive digital TV (on satellite, cable and digital terrestrial) in the UK – just under 70 per cent of all TV households(-1-). In addition by the end of 2005 more than 10.5 million Freeview boxes and integrated digital TVs, for digital terrestrial television, had been sold.

1.2 Digital terrestrial television is transmitted on television multiplexes. Multiplexes are licensed by Ofcom under the Broadcasting Act 1996 or, in the case of multiplex 1, granted by the Government. Three of the six multiplex licences (multiplexes B, C and D) contain a requirement that all the services they carry “shall be provided on a free to air basis save with the prior consent of Ofcom”. This requirement was inserted to reflect commitments made by the applicants for these licences when the licences were awarded in 2002.

1.3 Ofcom believes that there are good arguments to support a proposal to remove the ‘free to air only’ (FTA) requirement on multiplexes B, C and D on the basis that the requirement is no longer necessary and there are no compelling reasons to retain it. Ofcom has consulted on whether the requirement should be removed. The consultation was published 27 October 2005 and closed 12 January 2006. We received 21 responses from individuals and 12 from organisations. The responses were varied and ranged from strongly supporting the proposal to strongly opposing it.

Decision
1.4 Ofcom has concluded that the restriction on the services that can be carried on multiplexes B, C and D is no longer necessary, and can be removed without adverse effect on any other relevant Ofcom duties, including our duty to further the interests of citizens and consumers, promote competition, ensure efficient use of the radio spectrum and ensuring the availability of a wide range of TV and radio services from a sufficient plurality of providers. Ofcom is minded to remove the requirement in response to a request from each licensee, without further public consultation.
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idb
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #368 - Apr 20th, 2006 at 11:33pm
 
http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/article_1254879.html

<<
1615 GMT [Dow Jones] Seymour Pierce says Opal Telecom, part of Carphone Warehouse (CPW.ISE), has "a sizable 0870-business which will be negatively affected" by Ofcom's decision to cut the price of 0870 calls in the UK within 18 months. Notes consumers pay a premium for 0870 calls compared to national calls, and that "big companies in the UK often deliberately queue callers...as they generate revenue" which can be used to subsidise call centres. (PBA)
>>
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #369 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 8:28am
 
Quote:
Here is Ofcom's latest little contribution in this regard this time on the Freeview broadcasting side of affairs.  Apparently Ofcom sees no problem at all in channels like UK History, Sky Sports News, FTN etc all converting to Pay Tv channels ...

Pardon my simplistic perception, but wouldn't any sane person associate something called 'Freeview' as being free?  Roll Eyes

I reiterate my comments about free not being free in today's world. The word is over used resulting in a degree of cynicism when looking at any invitation to buy from the telecommunications industry.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #370 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 9:54am
 
Dave wrote on Apr 21st, 2006 at 8:28am:
Pardon my simplistic perception, but wouldn't any sane person associate something called 'Freeview' as being free?  Roll Eyes

I reiterate my comments about free not being free in today's world. The word is over used resulting in a degree of cynicism when looking at any invitation to buy from the telecommunications industry.


Freeview was a rebranded subsegment of Digital Terrestrial Television - DTT (the generic name for the platform of which the Freeview brand is but  a part) that was launched by the BBC and others after OnDigital went belly up in Spring 2002.  As part of the reletting of the three OnDigital multiplexes the Independent Broadcasting Authority (now swallowed by OfcoN) insisted that the three old OnDigital multiplexes (one of which was given to the BBC) should not have any pay tv channels on them.  In addition the BBC's first DTT multiplex already had the same requirement imposed so four out of six multiplexes or about 22 channels had to be Free to Air from that point on until now.  But this restriction did not apply to the C3/C4 multiplex now owned by ITV and Channel Four and the SDN Multiplex (once owned jointly by some Welsh Hill Farmer tv company called S4C Digital Network and Channel 5 but now owned also by ITV) and the TopUpTv service of 4/5 Pay Tv channels currently broadcasts on several of the SDN (now Second ITV) Multiplex slots.  So clearly the plan is to kick off most of the remaining shopping/quiz channels on these Multiplexes and launch a wider range of pay tv channels at at higher price than the present £7.99 per month charged at www.topuptv.com ;  Perhaps FilmFour might also be added as a PayTv option.  Although with broadband tv coming along in the Autumn for people who want such a pay tv choice but can't have their own satellite dish (there are 2 or 3 million households in this camp) I can't now see the case for letting more of DTT go to Pay Tv instead of Freeview.  Or at least I can't see the case from a regulator perspective even though I might from the Sky or TopUpTv one.

So to simplify this change by OfcoN will see many Freeview shopping channels and QuizCall disappear in favour of Pay Tv channels and might see UK History, Sky Sports News, ABC1, UK Bright Ideas, TMF, The Hits etc also join the world of subscription tv.  Of course i'm sure that ITV 1 to 4 and BBC 1 to 4, C4, E4, BBC News 24, Sky News, CBBC, CBeebies and ITV Kids will remain Free to Air but pretty much everything else could go to Pay Tv potentially.

So a very alarming development by OfcoN which at this point in the now widespread adoption of DTT as a replacement for analogue Tv there is no case for.  Its another obvious example of OfcoN letting down the consumer in favour of Stephen Carter's mates from the commercial world.  In fact I'm not even sure that Stepehen Carter even actually understands what the Public Interest is. Shocked Undecided
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #371 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 5:46pm
 
From my (rather long distance) view, this has to be one of the most depressing documents ever put out by the useless tos**ers at Ofcom. It is plainly obvious that the only effect will be to ensure that by the time the 0870 number becomes a "geographical" call, there won't be any 0870 numbers associated with UK companies. They will all be 0871!

Even as we wait, you can be assured that the telco sales people are out there doing their best to sign the mugs over to 0871 numbers.  Those that aren't mugs - and there are plenty of them - witness the quote about '..companies making UK callers hold on to fund their call centres' - will be actively changing their numbers over, too.

Any victory and relief that is felt by the public at large, as they read that 0870 numbers will be charged at geographic rates will soon evaporate when they realise that - once again - they have been duped, scammed and basically shafted by the the telcos and their lapdogs at Ofcom.

 Cry
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #372 - Apr 21st, 2006 at 5:57pm
 
mikeinnc wrote on Apr 21st, 2006 at 5:46pm:
It is plainly obvious that the only effect will be to ensure that by the time the 0870 number becomes a "geographical" call, there won't be any 0870 numbers associated with UK companies. They will all be 0871! Cry


Or in some cases like the BBC or Sky I suspect they will change to 5p per minute 0844 as there is no full price disclosure requirement or ICSTIS regulation on those but Sky and the BBC get a lot of calls at the weekend when the price is now going to be 5p per minute on 0844 instead of 1.5p per minute on 0870.  I assume that there is also going to be a more than threefold increase in revenue share at this time.

Why didn't Ofcom just issue a statement about price changes last October based on responses to NTS Options for the Future instead of NTS:Way Forward?  I know because it would have made it harder for them to delay the 0870 price change until as late as January 2008! Wink
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kk
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #373 - May 24th, 2006 at 4:11pm
 
Any news on this consultation?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #374 - May 24th, 2006 at 4:32pm
 
kk wrote on May 24th, 2006 at 4:11pm:
Any news on this consultation?


The consultation closes at 5pm tomorrow.

I'm hoping to write my response tonight or tomorrow morning, even though its obvious Ofcom won't listen as their previous announcement on 084/7 numbers has already prejduged the outcome of this consultation.

Clearly 084/7 will remain as a scammer's paradise with any good guys accidentally on 0845 in particular having to get an 03 number instead to do the right thing by telecoms consumers.

Also the fact that many current 0870 users will soon change to 0871 means that most of the alternatives database numbers on this site will then be completely invalidated thus further enhancing the revenue stream of the scammers. Shocked Cry

As you have previously so astutely deduced kk Ofcom is now a telecoms Trade Association in all but name masquerading under the cloak of being a regulator.  It pays only lip service to consultation and then Messrs Carter, Currie, Meek and Williams and their supine Non Executive Director colleagues merrily proceed on the path that has been agreed with the telecoms companies before the consultation started.  The only way to challenge this is for people to go to their MP saying they are not happy with how Ofcom is dealing with the 084/7 issue and asking for their MP to refer Ofcom to the Parliamentary Ombudsman for a formal investigation.

Stephen Carter and David Currie are total cynics who have no respect for the views of telecoms consumers or the creation of a regulatory system that stops covert revenue sharing.  BT phone bills still incredibly say Lo-Call and National Rate on them against 0845 and 0870 calls with Ofcom's apparent active connivance and knowledge - what more can one say. Angry Angry Angry Cry Cry Cry

The promises made by Matt Peacock for the scam to be brought under control by Matt Peacock on BBC Radio 4's You and Yours have not been honoured.  Mr Peacock should consider tendering his resignation from Ofcom unless of course his career progress takes priority over his principles and personal integrity?  Unfortunately that seems to be the general rule with most of Ofcom's overpaid staff.
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