Just to point out that the petition against 0844 doctors surgery numbers on the 10 Downing Street website now has over 3600 signatures and is shortly about to make it on to page 1 (top 50 petitions) of the 10 Downing street website ordered by size.

Normally posted in the 'parliamentary update' thread, but perhaps more relevant here:

House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 26 Jun 2007 (pt 0002)

NHS: Non-geographic Numbers

Mr. Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer to question 138605, whether national health service organisations using 09 or 087 numbers established before April 2005 are still able to use them. [144976]

Andy Burnham: Regulations came into force in April 2005 which prevented national health service dentists, NHS opticians, general practitioner practices and out of hours providers from establishing new premium rate telephone numbers for patients seeking to contact services. Existing numbers were not affected. Ministers decided not to issue directions to enforce a migration of existing numbers to low-cost alternatives such as 0844 or 0845 in the light of Ofcom's decision to review its numbering system. Ofcom has now created a new country-wide number range 03 for public and not for profit bodies, which are charged to the consumer at the local rate, and has now started allocating numbers using the 03 prefix.

The Department expects decisions on telephone numbers in primary care to be based on what is in the
best interests of patients taking account of the Central Office of Information guidance on cost to the citizen.

NHS trusts and foundation trusts are not affected by the aforementioned regulations.

03 numbers lie at the heart of the NEG issue and many related matters introduced to this thread.

Ofom has proposed this as a solution for the public and not-for-profit sectors, but both we and Ofcom have yet to see just how it will work, and therefore how effective a solution it will be. That is why 084 has been left in a mess. We may be cynical and pessimistic, as history provides us with strong justification for such views. We must however wait, and do all we can to ensure the best possible outcome.

We cannot however wait for totally unacceptable behaviour to be ceased. Patients paying providers for NHS services is so clearly unacceptable that this must be treated as a separate issue in its own right. The effect of high third-party costs incurred in accessing services is perhaps identical, but the issue is separate.

It may take a little time in sorting out what to do with those already signed-up, but there must be no more such contracts (or renewal of existing contracts) and the illegitimacy of what is happening must be clearly recognised.



Ben Bradshaw, Andy Burnham's successor, is engaged in correspondence on this issue and has so far repeated the same line, which fails to recognise the significance of the revenue-sharing feature of 0844. The correspondence continues and we hope that the key point will be recognised and lead to necessary action.

Members may wish to add weight to this by getting more MPs engaged.



I note the suggestion to contact practice managers of those using 0844 numbers. It may be better to contact the relevant PCTs. The PCT is a public body with a duty to serve the public interest, rather than the narrow duty to what a practice manager may see as a group of customers who are happy to pay for the service being delivered by a private body under contract to the PCT.



Members better acquainted with the detail of these matters and Ofcom's proposals for 03 may be able to help us understand an important issue for the medium term future.

03 is intended to enable NGNs to be used with the same call charges as 01/02. Where special features, such as network queueing, are presently paid for by higher call charges, this obviously cannot be done with 03 numbers. Forcing up the cost of calls to 01/02 to cover this by cross-subsidy cannot be part of Ofcom's proposal as this would be found to be totally unacceptable. Surely, where such features are to be deployed on 03 numbers, they must be paid for by the renter of the number either as used, or by an adjusted rental charge. One must assume that this is what Ofcom has proposed

I would be grateful if someone could help throw more light on this important aspect of what will be happening. It may be that we need to take advantage of the delay in introducing 03 to ensure that it happens properly.

David

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You bet your sweet a**s they have thought about the cost!! That's why they have done it! 

sherbert wrote on Aug 21^st, 2007 at 8:55am:


Welcome to the forum sherbert.

Can I trust that you have signed the petition against these ripoff 0844 doctors numbers at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/NGN-use-by-GPs/ and will be advising anyone else you know who uses this doctor's surgery to also do so.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 18^th, 2007 at 11:29am:


A doctors practice is not a charity. It is not a department of the NHS. It is not public purse funded.

The doctors are paid to provide a service. They have to provide their own premises, equiptment, staff, pensions etc.. the same as all other private businesses.   

Unless they are offered subsidised services and premises by the government or by the NHS, why should either party dictate what business model they decide upon. 

When doctors were given the option to opt out of certain services,and paid extra for others it llowed the practice to decide the future of their own business. Increasingle the practice manager will have commercial skills in line with running a business.

I also read a post discusing how this would not be allowed in USA. That is correct, but in the USA that average visit to a doctors is $63 for non emergency. For emergency teladoc (a telephone based out of hours service) it is $80.

5pence per minute sounds cheap to me! (but then, I see the benfefit of instant access, auto appointment booking and call forwarding out of hours).

Quote from simond001
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PRECISELY. See my post No. 189 on this thread:

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or, indeed, should patients contribute to the redecoration of the surgery, cleaning costs and the cost of paperclips?

Remember that NHS services are supposed to be free at the point of use.  Doctors should be prohibited from introducing hidden charges to patients, such as 0844 telephone costs.

We are paying for the health service through our NI contributions.