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SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility (Read 13,614 times)
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SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Dec 2nd, 2006 at 1:53pm
 
The new improved alternative number search facility is now available from the 'Search to find an alternative number' link on the homepage of the website.

This facility has been in the test stages for sometime, but although additional work is still planned, I feel that it is at a stage now, where it can be made 'live' on the website.

This enables visitors to do a single search, with results being displayed from both the main database, and the unverified numbers database in a single page. - This avoids the need to make two separate searches, and should hopefully result in alternative numbers being found more easily.

If anyone experiences any problems with the new search pages, or if you notice any 'bugs' (or have any suggestions on improvements), please feel free to reply to this post.

Thanks again to everyone for your continued support,

Daniel (Forum Admin)
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« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2006 at 1:54pm by Forum Admin »  

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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #1 - Dec 2nd, 2006 at 2:24pm
 
Thanks
Smiley

I'd also like to add that on some database entries the company name will be a link to the company.
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« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2006 at 2:26pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:26am
 
Hi,

I'm liking the new facility - very nice. Only thing - where is the key for the unverified database? Some entries have identifier keys by them and there is no longer the entry that said what the keys meant. That might be a useful feature to re-enter into the system.

James

One final point: don't we British spell "centre" like this? Smiley
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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2006 at 10:56am
 
jgxenite wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 12:26am:
I'm liking the new facility - very nice. Only thing - where is the key for the unverified database? Some entries have identifier keys by them and there is no longer the entry that said what the keys meant. That might be a useful feature to re-enter into the system.
Welcome.  The key is at the bottom.

The search results are split into two tables.  The first table displays the 'Verified Database' (or 'Main Database') results (if any) and has it's own title.  Also, for the 'Verified' database results, the background colour of the table if white.

The second table displays the 'Unverified Numbers Database' results (if any) and has it's own title.  Also, for the 'Unverified' results, the background colour of the table is a light blue.


Quote:
One final point: don't we British spell "centre" like this? Smiley
Yes we do.  If you're referring to 'Center Parcs' entries then that is how they spell it.
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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2006 at 10:14am
 
bbb,

Congratulations to you, Dave, Daniel and whoever else was involved in bringing about this huge improvement in the number search facility which will at a stroke mean thousands more lost 084/7 revenue sharing calls a week for the scammers. Smiley

I say that because I honestly think that other than a few officionados like myself most site users would not previously have been aware of the existence of the Unverified alternatives as when a search failed previously all you were offered instead was a Google search.  The Unverified numbers list button was actually tucked away at the bottom of the search screen.

A couple of small suggested further improvements if it would be technically possible:-

(a) From now on could we record the contributors of Unverified Numbers under a forum user name?  Ideally future alternative contributors would need to register (if you don't think that would put people off) as at least that would put off dodgy number contributors and give credit to those who contribute a lot of number alternatives (the total number of verified and unverified alternatives contributed by that site/forum member could be shown).

(b) There needs to be an automated link function to report any dogdy numbers so that the number is then perhaps publicly marked with the numbers of other users who have reported problems with it and also brought to the attention of forum administrators for action and revision when they have time.

(c) Of course you do realise we are going to have a huge problem on 1st Feb 2008 when numerous 0870 numbers will change to either 0871 or 0844 in order to hang on to the revenue share.  Also quite a few 0845 numbers will in due course be changing to 0370 numbers in my opinion.  I must say I have a very hard time in understanding why the number used was 0370 and not 0301 given that these new NGNs have no linkage at all to an inflated non geographic call price tarriff.   It seems to me this is another victory for Ofcom's telco chums in trying to muddy the waters over the public understanding what they are paying for phone calls and especially for 0871 numbers. Shocked Angry Cry

But anyhow well done again bbb to you and the rest of the team.  It has been a long time since there have been any significant functional improvements in how this website works.  The last one was the introduction of the new version of YaBB for the forum.
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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2006 at 5:56pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 6th, 2006 at 10:14am:
bbb,

Congratulations to you, Dave, Daniel and whoever else was involved in bringing about this huge improvement in the number search facility which will at a stroke mean thousands more lost 084/7 revenue sharing calls a week for the scammers. Smiley
It was all Daniel's work that got it this far.

As for your suggestions, due to different technical programming language between the website and the forum, I don't think this is possible and I believe Daniel has tried.

As for reporting invalid numbers, it was hoped that a rating system could be incorporated but unfortunately it hasn't been reliable at all and contains bugs.  We felt (as mentioned by Daniel in his OP), that despite the fact it's not as we'd have hoped it was decided to release the search as it was (without a 'rating' system) until such time as it could become reliable, etc.

Quote:
I must say I have a very hard time in understanding why the number used was 0370 and not 0301 given that these new NGNs have no linkage at all to an inflated non geographic call price tarriff..
Off-topic but from the consultation statements I don't think Ofcom specifically mentioned 0370.  First I had heard of that was forum member 0870advice.
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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #6 - Dec 6th, 2006 at 6:40pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 6th, 2006 at 5:56pm:
It was all Daniel's work that got it this far.

We felt (as mentioned by Daniel in his OP), that despite the fact it's not as we'd have hoped it was decided to release the search as it was (without a 'rating' system) until such time as it could become reliable, etc.


Three cheers for Daniel and all his many hours of hard work to bring this about.  Hip Hip Hooray.  Smiley Smiley Smiley

I know I and Daniel may have had our occasional differences in the past but I just wanted to make sure he knows this is a huge improvement to what the site can offer most of the people who use it (that is those who just want an alternate number and don't bother with all our forum banter) although ideally this might possibly have happened just a touch earlier.  Of course I realise the random state of the Unverified list data and standardising it in some way might have made this quite tricky though.

Quote:
Off-topic but from the consultation statements I don't think Ofcom specifically mentioned 0370.  First I had heard of that was forum member 0870advice.


A quick Google reveals that 0870 Advice who actually has to deal with selling these new number ranges and make his living from them (unlike us) is taking his comments from none other than the table on Page 130 of Ofcom's own Consultation document - Safeguarding The Future of Numbers:-

www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/numberingreview/statement/statement.pdf

This can be summarised as:-

0300  Reserved for the public sector for brand new 03 NGN numbers or services with no historic legacy 0844, 0845 or 0870 related preceding services.

0303  Reserved for everyone else apart from the public sector wanting an NGN but with no historic legacy connection with 0844, 0845 or 0870

0344/0345  Reserved for existing users of 0844 and 0845 numbers who want to migrate to an NGN numbers only charged at geographic rates and included in inclusive call packages fro 01/02 numbers

0870/0871 Reserved for existing users of 0870 and 0871 numbers who want to migrate to NGN numbers only charged at geographic rates and included in inclusive call packages to 01/02 numbers.

Well, well I don't know how we missed this.  No doubt it was our failing to read the full 175 pages worth. Wink Shocked Cry

This new plan is quite clearly designed to completely confuse the public so they won't have a clue what they are paying.  Just what the call centre industy ordered in other words.

So 0300 will be for the public sector except that most public sector operators will be migrating and 0844, 0845 or 0870 number so would end up on 0344, 0345 or 0370 where they are entitled to the exact equivalent to their old 08 NGN with just the new prefix.  So hardly anyone will have 0300 and 0300 due to the 03 designation will be confused with 0500 and 0800 calls.  Just brilliant Ofcom.  An email spoofer or spammer couldn't have done better to devise such a devious plan.

Then 0303 will gradually increase in size as new people wanting NGNs with call redirection with no legacy number want them. No problem here and surely the public sector should also just have got these for new services since most will in fact be migrating 0844 and 0845 numbers where they will be mixed up with the private sector.  But hang on doesn't 0303 look like 0808 and wrongly imply its Freephone again.  Oh dear Ofcom - what a tangled web of deviousness you weave to protect the bank balances of your Telco chums.

0370 - Ummmm clearly I have missed something obvious but as 0870 will be changed to geographic rate (unless there is an announcement by your OCP that they want to scam you for more despite there no longer being a revenue share that justifies them doing so) why would anyone want to migrate an 0870 number to 0370 with all the marketing confusion that involves.  Only reason I can think is because 0870 will continue to be tarred in some minds with the brush of not being part of inclusive call packages especially due to Ofcom allowing the OCP scam loophole with call price announcement

0871 - Apparently for migrating 0871 numbers that will no longer be premium rate.  Yeah sure I bet there will be loads of them migrating to 03 won't there? Roll Eyes  And if they do they will really want to go on ending the number with 71 which implies it is expensive. Huh Undecided Cry
So in other words some clown at Ofcom spent about five minutes thrashing out with their telco chums what would best further confuse the public about what they are paying for NGN calls and came up with this.  Just brilliant Ofcom.  Now that's what I call really protecting the UK citizen consumer and being fully compliant with the EU Misleading Advertisng Directive.  What a shame Ofcom never asked consumers rather than the telcos what new NGN structure they might find most helpful. Wink Roll Eyes Angry Cry Cry Cry

What a pity I couldn't muster the strength to respond to this consultation so soon after NTS Way Forward and all the other Ofcom consultations I had written pages to respond to only to be ignored.  Still if I had responded no doubt I would have ignored anyway and Ofcom would have still proceeded anyway with their Masterplan previously agreed with their telco chums who attend their NTS Focus Groups sessions. Angry Angry Angry

I have also posted the above comments in the thread started by 0870 Advice in GN Chat :-

www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1163061909/90
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« Last Edit: Dec 6th, 2006 at 8:29pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #7 - Jan 1st, 2007 at 4:35pm
 
Sorry for my late reply - I haven't been on the forum in a while and had forgotten about this post...

bbb_uk wrote on Dec 4th, 2006 at 10:56am:
The key is at the bottom ... The second table displays the 'Unverified Numbers Database' results (if any) and has it's own title.  Also, for the 'Unverified' results, the background colour of the table is a light blue.


Yes, but I meant for identifiers like # and the euro. The unverified list used to say what these meant - they are still listed on the new page but there is no explanation of what they mean (and I've since forgotten).

Quote:
Quote:
One final point: don't we British spell "centre" like this? Smiley
Yes we do.  If you're referring to 'Center Parcs' entries then that is how they spell it.


No, I didn't mean that. At the bottom of the search page it says "Info Center" - presumably it should be spelt "Info Centre" Smiley. Just being picky really.
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Re: SAYNOTO0870.COM - New Improved Search Facility
Reply #8 - Jan 19th, 2007 at 11:50pm
 
I must admit it is a huge improvement, I love the integration of the UV Database, Well done to all involved...

Only problem I have had was adding the NGN for 118 numbers, it knows it doesn't start with 08* so doesn't like it, although the entries have been manually altered now, it would be good to allow 118 numbers into the DB

Again, another HUGE Thanks to everyone involved
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