SAYNOTO0870.COM - Police introduce charges for non-emergency calls

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #120 - Sep 17^th, 2008 at 11:43pm

Tanllan wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 11:10pm:

6p per minute?

Yes, this is totally wrong. 03 calls are charged as per 01/02 calls by all providers, so will cost the same as calling any other landline, and will come out of inclusive minutes or free calls options depending on your tariff. Certainly not 6p/min.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #121 - Sep 18^th, 2008 at 1:11am

Dave wrote on Sep 17^th, 2008 at 5:01pm:

Quote:

The new number costs six pence a minute from a BT landline. Call charges for other landline and mobile network providers may vary."

I have just spoken with a lady at Staffordshire Police and she says they are aware of this. They intend to publish an advisory message on the website.

They should also be ready to comment to newspapers and any other media who have used the news release, explaining and correcting the error.

My guess is that they arrived at 6p per minute by totalling the cost for a 3 minute call, as follows:

[3 minutes @ 4p =] 12p, + 6p (old) set up fee, = 18p, / 3 = 6p.

When giving pence per minute it is better not to include the call set up fee, although 19p is now the correct price for a 3 minute weekday daytime call for the Unlimited Weekend option from BT - TO ANY LOCAL (or other geographic) NUMBER.

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Dave

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #122 - Sep 18^th, 2008 at 3:12pm

The press release from Staffordshire Police has now been amended:

Quote:

Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than calls beginning 01 and 02, and are included in any inclusive call minutes or discount schemes. However, the exact price you pay depends upon the terms and conditions of your service provider."

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #123 - Sep 21^st, 2008 at 10:27am

Dave wrote on Sep 18^th, 2008 at 3:12pm:

The press release from Staffordshire Police has now been amended:

Quote:

Calls to 03 numbers cost no more than calls beginning 01 and 02, and are included in any inclusive call minutes or discount schemes. However, the exact price you pay depends upon the terms and conditions of your service provider."

Yes, I received a couple of very nice e-mails from them after I pointed out the errors to the Chief Constable's Staff Officer (she's the Sergeant who picks up the Chief Constable's e-mails to save him the effort of reading them).

Quote:

Thank you very much for taking the time to contact us - because of your prompt action we have been able to alter most of our literature and promotional material before our go-live date yesterday.

Your help is very much appreciated.

Regards

Pauline Smith
Deputy Head of Contact Centre

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« Last Edit: Sep 21^st, 2008 at 10:30am by Heinz »

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #124 - Sep 21^st, 2008 at 11:48pm

Source: The Sentinel

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/New-number-cuts-police-costs/article-3...

New number cuts police call costs

Friday, September 19, 2008, 09:21

<<
STAFFORDSHIRE Police has launched a new telephone number which will make it cheaper for people to contact them.

The force consulted the public about the change and chose the new number – 0300 123 4455 – because it is easy to remember and dial.

It will replace the former number, which was 08453 302010.

People can use the number to speak to police about anything which is not a 999 emergency.

The new number costs 6p per minute from a BT landline and, unlike the previous number, can be added to talk plans or free call bundles offered by various networks.

[…]

Staffordshire's Chief Constable Chris Sims said: "We haven't take the decision lightly but there are such advantages we decided to go for it.

"Ofcom wants all public bodies to take on 03 numbers so we would have had to do it at some point."

About 1,000 members of the public were asked which number they would prefer from a selection, and they chose the new one because it was the easiest to remember and dial.

It went live yesterday, and the old one will gradually be phased out. The police held a launch event at Trentham Gardens, and officers handed out balloons and leaflets to publicise the new number.

Mr Sims said: "The launch event was paid for by BT. We have put aside a small amount of money to change literature but it is not going to have a big cost for the public."

[…]
>>

Credit should be given to Northumbria, Durham and now Staffordshire Police forces for moving away from their 0845 numbers to 03xx ones. Hopefully others will follow suit.

It's slightly disappointing that the article contains the misinformation that the 0300 number is 6p/min from a BT line.

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« Last Edit: Sep 21^st, 2008 at 11:48pm by Dave »

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #125 - Sep 21^st, 2008 at 11:56pm

Dave wrote on Sep 21^st, 2008 at 11:48pm:

Mr Sims said: "The launch event was paid for by BT. We have put aside a small amount of money to change literature but it is not going to have a big cost for the public."

So one arm of BT pays for the Police to launch an 03 number whilst another arm of BT hoodwinks Norwich City Council in to switching over to 0844 on the basis that it is more flexible and modern. Talk about being two faced!

And of course BT can't even seem to properly explain to the Police the main advantages of switching to using an 03 phone number. Shocked

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #126 - Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:09am

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 21^st, 2008 at 11:56pm:

So one arm of BT pays for the Police to launch an 03 number whilst another arm of BT hoodwinks Norwich City Council in to switching over to 0844 on the basis that it is more flexible and modern. Talk about being two faced!

I think it's very positive that telephone providers are getting behind 03 numbers. This is what we want. Even Windsor Telecom is getting behind 0300 numbers for public bodies with its "Healthcare Guide" and other information as to why 03 is the way to go.

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« Last Edit: Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:10am by Dave »

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #127 - Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:18pm

Dave wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2008 at 12:09am:

I think it's very positive that telephone providers are getting behind 03 numbers. This is what we want. Even Windsor Telecom is getting behind 0300 numbers for public bodies with its "Healthcare Guide" and other information as to why 03 is the way to go.

That's only because these NTS vending shysters now know that it is totally against COI guidelines and the Varney report to try to sell new 0844 and 0845 numbers to the public sector and that they may eventually get their come uppance from any body they want to go on doing business with long term if they try to hoodwink them in to switching to or staying on one of these numbers.

However as even 03 numbers are still potentially something of a ripoff (they often add unnecessary cost over and above what Intelligent Call Routing can call stats need cost if they were on geographic numbers due to the existence of additional telecoms middlemen) I hardly think we can always applaud their use. It is to be applauded perhaps if current 0844 and 0845 users switch to them rather than carrying on with using those numbers but not to be applauded if a current user of a perfectly good and complex geographic phone number systems suddenly switched to using 03 (not that this is generally happening).

Don't forget that 03 numbers are actually largely my idea put forward to Ofcom at their one and only meeting for consumer groups on NTS numbers held in November 2005. I both suggested the code they should use (03) and the fact that what was so objectionable about their lovely intelligent call routing 084/7 system that they said had so much added value in it was that there was no version of it where either the consumer was not violenty ripped off (084/7) or alternatively business was not violently ripped off (0800). As a result of these comments Ofcom then came up with the idea of 03 numbers charged at normal rates to callers but where business pays something extra above geographic calls for the extra features offered.

In theory 03 should work much better for the consumer than 084/7 as businesses are large telecoms consumers and so will always shop round aggressively for the best telecoms deal. However I suspect that with some of our more lazy and incompetent public sector bodies that this may not always happen and because its just public money and not their profits they will lazily sign the first 03 deal going with their existing 084/7 telecoms supplier without properly checking out all the alternatives.

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« Last Edit: Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:20pm by NGMsGhost »

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #128 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 1:46am

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:18pm:

it is totally against COI guidelines and the Varney report to try to sell new 0844 and 0845 numbers to the public sector

As I recall, whilst both recommend some of the benefits of 03, neither prohibits use of 084x. I am certainly not aware of any directive anywhere in the public sector that implements such guidance.

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:18pm:

even 03 numbers are still potentially something of a ripoff

I do not believe that geographic numbers with additional features invariably provide a cheaper option than 03. If I were to be convinced of this, then I would be quick to condemn all use of 03 numbers. Sadly we do not have the information necessary to effectively oversee every public procurement exercise in detail and so we can only press the case for 03 whenever a non-geographic number is being considered.

03 numbers would generally be more expensive, on a like-for-like basis, than 084x or 087x. Except in cases where we are aware of the applicability of a powerful argument in favour of a geographic number, it is surely best not to press the potential downsides of 03 to anyone considering its use. I understand the general perception that 03 is expensive to have already caused it to be dismissed as an option by many. Unless we have clear reasons for doing so, we should not add to any general sense of distrust.

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:18pm:

… some of our more lazy and incompetent public sector bodies … may not … always shop round aggressively for the best telecoms deal

As campaigners, to whom these bodies may not be directly accountable, we sadly cannot directly affect the quality of the decision making process. All we can hope to do is ensure that the truth about revenue sharing is understood and the benefits of 03 are recognised in cases where this could be worthy of consideration.

Vast amounts of both public and private money are wasted every day, due to poor procurement practice. Seeking improvement is a worthy cause, and if there is a case to be made against 03 then it should be made in full. "The best deal" for the procurer is not however the only issue. Our focus here is against the use of revenue sharing numbers that do save money, but at the expense of service users. As 03 provides an opportunity to avoid this, it has my full support, until I have reason to withdraw it.

For now, I therefore congratulate and thank all those responsible for its introduction and continuing promotion.

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #129 - Sep 25^th, 2008 at 9:39pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Sep 24^th, 2008 at 9:18pm:

However as even 03 numbers are still potentially something of a ripoff (they often add unnecessary cost over and above what Intelligent Call Routing can call stats need cost if they were on geographic numbers due to the existence of additional telecoms middlemen) I hardly think we can always applaud their use. It is to be applauded perhaps if current 0844 and 0845 users switch to them rather than carrying on with using those numbers but not to be applauded if a current user of a perfectly good and complex geographic phone number systems suddenly switched to using 03 (not that this is generally happening).

If forcing the retail price of 03 inline with that of 01/02 also means that the termination charges are also generally inline, then this surely creates a level playing field between 01/02 versus 03. BT Wholesale has said that its outpayments for 03 will go by this principle.

This is what the Say No To 0870 campaign has been pushing for. To have a geographically priced non-geographical number range, the "wholesale" cost of calls must surely be the same as with 01/02 so as not to artifically affect the latter's retail price.

Choose what the technical benefits of 03 numbers are and whether they are really necessary, they are non-geographical and I think that many larger organisations opt for such a number solely on this basis.

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« Last Edit: Sep 25^th, 2008 at 9:41pm by Dave »

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Met Police say yes to 0300
Reply #130 - Sep 26^th, 2008 at 1:14pm

Source: Metropolitan Police Authority

http://www.mpa.gov.uk/about/foi/briefings/2008/0814.htm

Quote:

Met contact number

14/08
18 September 2008
MPA briefing paper

Author: Chief Supt Ian Harrison, MPS

This briefing paper has been prepared to inform members and staff. It is not a committee report and no decisions are required.

Summary

* The Citizen Focus Programme has co-ordinated a programme of work to introduce a single, and memorable, Metropolitan Contact Number for the MPS (the MCN)
* The MCN will be introduced alongside the existing 60 plus contact numbers that route through to CCC. The old numbers date back to the MPS divisions and the Borough Telephone Operator Centres and will be phased out over a period of some years
* The new number will be within the new 0300 range of numbers recently released by OFCOM and will improve access to services, reduce emergency call usage and bring the MPS into line with other UK police forces
* The new number is a fundamental element of the ‘the MPS Promise to Citizens’ document.
* The testing process for the number will commence on 22 September 2008 and the number will be available from 29 September 2008
* The number will be 0300 123 1212
* The cost of this feature will be less than £125,000 per year for the four remaining years of the current IT contract. Funding for this has been made available.

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal Reply #131 - Sep 27^th, 2008 at 6:31pm Members may be interested in seeing the memorandum published by ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers for England, Wales and Northern Ireland) towards the end of last year by following the link to the PDF on this page: http://www.mynhw.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87
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Derbyshire Constabulary to switch to 0345
Reply #132 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 5:46pm

Source: MINUTES of the meeting of the CITIZEN FOCUS COMMITTEE of the DERBYSHIRE POLICE AUTHORITY held at the Derbyshire Police Headquarters, Butterley Hall, Ripley on 22 July 2008.

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/sei/s/760/citizen%20focus%202008-07-22%20minutes...

Quote:

47.5 Various initiatives to improve external communications are to be introduced including; a countywide single 0345 telephone number which will be publicised during September, a single email address will be available by next year and leaflets will be distributed around various public places and supermarkets so that the community are aware of who their safer neighbourhood teams are.

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Heinz Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,362 Essex	Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal Reply #133 - Sep 30^th, 2008 at 8:06pm http://www.mynhw.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=87&p=382#p382
Back to top	After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015 IP Logged

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Re: Police introduce charges for non-emergency cal
Reply #134 - Oct 10^th, 2008 at 12:36pm

Wiltshire Police Authority
Consultation and Public Focus Committee
AGENDA ITEM NO: 10
13 October 2008

http://www.wiltshire-pa.gov.uk/meetingdocs/Agenda%20Item%2010%20Non-Emergency%20...

Quote:

REVIEW OF WILTSHIRE POLICE’S 0845 NON-EMERGENCY NUMBER

Purpose

1. There has become more and more concern at a national and local level with the cost to customers that use the Police’s 0845 number. When Wiltshire Police implemented the 0845 number back in 2006 it was thought to be based on a local charge rate for customers and was in-line with other Public sector organisations thinking and usage.
However, due to the telecommunications market opening up and more and more land line and mobile phone providers emerging to compete against BT the traditional call charges changed and impacted on the cost of using 0845.

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