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URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Members (Read 71,036 times)
NGMsGhost
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #45 - Jun 12th, 2008 at 4:46pm
 
Keith wrote on Jun 12th, 2008 at 4:09pm:
Regardless of what the BBC originally decided or the technicalities that going to 0370 can only apply to 0870 numbers the BBC clearly ran a number of reports specifically identify the problems with 0845 and 0844 numbers with costs and also clearly stated they were putting their own house in order.

These statement appears to be a lie.


I will be interested to see what impact my email has as I circulated it very widely across senior members of staff at the BBC including Trustees and Members of the Executive Board and also the Controllers of all the main national BBC tv and radio stations as well as heads of departments and other special high level employees.

I would have thought that BBC Local Radio stations will be up in arms about this when it becomes clear that the rest of the BBC is moving to normally priced 03 numbers while they are to be stuck with up to 40p per minute from mobile phone covert premium rate 0845 numbers.  And on what possible basis can such a decision possibly have been taken.  Were they even consulted about this proposal by Mr Stock or the BBC Executive Board?

As to technicalities the 0345 number range awaits the BBC if they simply wish to exactly mirror their current range of 0845 numbers.  Or they could simply have gone for 0300 numbers throughout to replace all of their current 084 and 087 prefixed phone numbers.

I suppose I could really do with an email circulation list for the CEOs of all BBC Local Radio Stations.
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« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2008 at 4:48pm by NGMsGhost »  

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #46 - Jun 14th, 2008 at 11:50pm
 
Keith wrote on Jun 12th, 2008 at 4:09pm:
This statement appears to be a lie.

Yes it does.

Journalists commonly make mistakes. Recognising how often this happens with matters that I know about myself, I am left wondering about the truth of everything I read and hear. Such mild cynicism is however healthy and necessary if we are to have a free press.

Whether journalists have any greater duty of accuracy when reporting on the organisation that employs or commissions them is an interesting point. Given that they need (and seek) to show some degree of independence, I would probably say that they do not - the same standards should apply.

With the case at issue, I believe that this was not a quoted statement issued in the name of the BBC executive board but a comment by a reporter that was tangential to the story being covered - the Which? item did not mention the BBC, nor (I believe) does it refer to 084x numbers.

If a specific report was incorrect or misleading then it falls into the same category as most of what we read and hear. If a specific significant error can be identified, then a correction and apology must be demanded. If the BBC has deliberately set out to present false information with the intention of deceiving (i.e. "lied") then that is indeed a very serious matter.

We cannot dismiss the possibility that reporters were simply confused in the same way as some of us were. The BBC has a robust complaints system that should be used whenever appropriate.
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #47 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 12:26pm
 
BBC are now actually using 0370numbers Smiley

On You and yours today they announced their new number 0370.....
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #48 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 12:48pm
 
allegro wrote on Jul 1st, 2008 at 12:26pm:
BBC are now actually using 0370numbers Smiley

On You and yours today they announced their new number 0370.....

Yes it has happened.

The BBC information line confirm that with effect from yesterday ALL 0870 numbers are now 0370.

There may be odd exceptions and the 0870 numbers are still working.

09 competition lines and 0845 numbers are not affected.

The saynoto0870 campaign must celebrate this great victory.
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Dave
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #49 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 1:03pm
 
Indeed, this is a victory for Say no to 0870! Smiley Smiley Smiley

Radio 1's contact page now shows the 0370 number with a note "0370 numbers are called 'UK Wide' and cost no more than calls to 01/02 geographic numbers".

Let's hope other organisations follow suit.
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #50 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 1:28pm
 
As I am still awaiting a decision from the ICO re obtaining geo numbers for all 0870 numbers, it is now academic, probably why they have been holding off.

My application to the ICO was 14th September 2006!!
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #51 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 1:30pm
 
Dave wrote on Jul 1st, 2008 at 1:03pm:
Indeed, this is a victory for Say no to 0870! Smiley Smiley Smiley

Radio 1's contact page now shows the 0370 number with a note "0370 numbers are called 'UK Wide' and cost no more than calls to 01/02 geographic numbers".

Let's hope other organisations follow suit.



They are still using 5 digit text contact which I assume will be premium rate texts!
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #52 - Jul 1st, 2008 at 2:17pm
 
Don't pop too many champagne corks as Question Time will continue to use an 0871 audience participation line and all BBC radio and other 0845 numbers will remain in operation.

It is totally illogical to be using 0370 for some BBC numbers and 0845 and 0871 for others.  Either they accept the principal that charging extra for the privilege of calling them is wrong or they do not.

So any comments on the BBC change to 0370 must be limited to damning with feint praise their switch of only BBC Information and a few other major radio and tv program phone in lines to 0370.  I would also rather they had switched to 0301 rather than 0370 as at least this does not sound like it may be connected with the old 0870 high cost call rates.  0370 obviously runs the risk of being teinted in this way in view of any public education or publicity campaign on 03 numbers by Ofcom being non existent.  There is also a high risk your current telecoms supplier will still charge you at g6 multimedia rate for calling an 0370 number thanks to the predictable lethargy and incompetence of Ofcom in enforcing their amended General Condition regarding the cost of calling these numbers being the same as the cost of calls to 01 and 02 numbers. Angry

Both Post Office Homephone and yourcalls.net tried to charge me for calling 03 numbers at g6 multimedia rate.
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« Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2008 at 2:18pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #53 - Jul 19th, 2008 at 8:38am
 
VERY GOOD NEWS!!!

BBC TV "Breakfast" has shown "NEWSWATCH" this morning in which there is discussion about their move to 0370 numbers.   See the link below to watch this online.  I also believe that this item may be repesated at around 08.45 this morning and again on Breakfast tomorrow.   The item is after half way through the Newswatch item.

During the piece Michael Scott of the BBC is interviewed and interestingly he says that the BBC wanted to make the switch from 0870 without "running up a bigger phone bill for the BBC".   He implies that there has been no cost, or additional cost to the BBC in this move and this has great implications for our campaign!!!    It indicates, for example, that NHS Direct are wrong to suggest that moving from their 0845 number to an 03 number would cost them extra.   Of course they might lose their revenue share but they have always categorically denied getting any revenue share and even went to great length to get BT Global Services to provide a written statement confirming that NHSD get no revenue share (hoist by their own petard?).    

This means that all the other Quangos and government departments cannot argue that they cannot afford to move to 03 because of the cost.   This entirely counters statements by the Contact Council that moves to 03 would cost them and provides us with a solid argument and evidence when we are disputing this matter with other abusers of 084/7 numbers.

Interestingly, GPs always claim that they are making no money from their use of 0844/5 numbers so .... they could all switch easily to 03 numbers Wink Kiss Cool Cheesy Grin Grin



http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7510000/newsid_7514800/7514804.stm?bw=bb...
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« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2008 at 9:00am by loddon »  
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #54 - Jul 19th, 2008 at 12:26pm
 
loddon wrote on Jul 19th, 2008 at 8:38am:
VERY GOOD NEWS!!!

BBC TV "Breakfast" has shown "NEWSWATCH" this morning in which there is discussion about their move to 0370 numbers.   See the link below to watch this online.  I also believe that this item may be repesated at around 08.45 this morning and again on Breakfast tomorrow.   The item is after half way through the Newswatch item.

During the piece Michael Scott of the BBC is interviewed and interestingly he says that the BBC wanted to make the switch from 0870 without "running up a bigger phone bill for the BBC".   He
implies
that there has been no cost, or additional cost to the BBC in this move
and this has great implications for our campaign!!!    It indicates, for example, that NHS Direct are wrong to suggest that moving from their 0845 number to an 03 number would cost them extra.   Of course they might lose their revenue share but they have always categorically denied getting any revenue share and even went to great length to get BT Global Services to provide a written statement confirming that NHSD get no revenue share (hoist by their own petard?).   

This means that all the other Quangos and government departments cannot argue that they cannot afford to move to 03 because of the cost.   This entirely counters statements by the Contact Council that moves to 03 would cost them and provides us with a solid argument and evidence when we are disputing this matter with other abusers of 084/7 numbers.

Interestingly, GPs always claim that they are making no money from their use of 0844/5 numbers so .... they could all switch easily to 03 numbers Wink Kiss Cool Cheesy Grin Grin



http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7510000/newsid_7514800/7514804.stm?bw=bb...


Are we now to believe what the BBC inform us? They are prolific liars, so maybe there is a cost to them by using 03 numbers, but they choose not to tell us.

All the info I have read,(and that is not a lot), has suggested that there  is a cost to receive calls on 03 numbers, unless you know of some links that disprove this!




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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #55 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 9:16am
 
of course they have to pay for 03 - it's about 1/2 a penny less than 0800 to them... but, they're only using 03 for some of their enquiry lines which receive very little traffic... and they still have to print geo alternatives for all the calls they receive from outside the uk

this is purely a publicity stunt - the vast majority of their inbound calls comes from TV licencing area and they are using revenue bearing 0844 800 (BT) numbers @ 5 pence per minute (at all times) - great victory in that now it costs a little less to call 'em in the day, but much more at evenings and weekends... well done
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #56 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:00am
 
loddon wrote on Jul 19th, 2008 at 8:38am:
This means that all the other Quangos and government departments cannot argue that they cannot afford to move to 03 because of the cost.   This entirely counters statements by the Contact Council that moves to 03 would cost them and provides us with a solid argument and evidence when we are disputing this matter with other abusers of 084/7 numbers.
As far as i'm aware, there is a incoming charge for anyone owning a 03x.  I have yet to find a company that doesn't charge for incoming calls.

Either BBC is lying as mentioned earlier, or that they have struck a deal with their supplier of 03x but chances of that are slim.

At the end of the day, the facility to hold people in a queue, intelligent transfer, etc all cost money so they have to be charged for somehow.  On 084x/087x this paid for in the price of the call for most of the time (except maybe the really expensive providers of these numbers).  On 03x this means incoming call charges and/or higher linerental.
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:03am by bbb_uk »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #57 - Jul 20th, 2008 at 10:22am
 
loddon wrote on Jul 19th, 2008 at 8:38am:
.... they could all switch easily to 03 numbers

There is much confusion around these issues. If we wish to exploit it, we must be very careful not to simply add to it.

The BBC statement about the costs involved in moving off 0870 may have been with reference to what it was told the costs to it would have been if the Ofcom changes proposed for 1 February 2008 had come into effect. Many decisions go back to the time when it may have been believed that this would happen.

The term "revenue share" is commonly used to describe the situation where a user of a revenue sharing number takes the benefit in the form of cash income from their teleco. Those who decline this in favour of a reduced fee for their telecommunications services feel able to say that they are not receiving a "revenue share". I would suggest reference to "benefiting from", rather than "receiving".

I would urge members to consider the possibility that many organisations involved in this matter simply do not fully understand what is going on and then convey their genuine and unrecognised misunderstanding to others.
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #58 - Dec 20th, 2008 at 11:34am
 
I have now, eventually, after nearly 2½ years from original reqest to the BBC and over two years from going to the ICO, received the Decision Notice.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/tools_and_resources/decision_notices/2008_12.aspx

Click on the PDF link on the above webpage to take you to the Notice.

It goes only partially in my favour and they have 35 calendar days to supply the information,(much if not all will now be academic as they don't use many 0870 numbers now!).

Also I do not see them complying and will more than likely appeal to the Appeals Tribunal, unless none of the numbers they have been told to give up are now out of use and useless to anyone.


Steps Required


47. The Commissioner requires the public authority to take the following steps to
ensure compliance with the Act:
    The BBC is to supply the complainant with the equivalent geographic
number of its non-geographic numbers not accompanied by a call plan.

48. The public authority must take the steps required by this notice within 35 calendar
days from the date of this notice.

49. Failure to comply with the steps described above may result in the Commissioner
 making written certification of this fact to the High Court pursuant to section 54 of
 the Act, and may be dealt with as a contempt of court.  
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Re: URGENT -BBC 03 Decision 21/4- Email Board Memb
Reply #59 - Dec 20th, 2008 at 11:50am
 
derrick wrote on Dec 20th, 2008 at 11:34am:
Also I do not see them complying and will more than likely appeal to the Appeals Tribunal, unless none of the numbers they have been told to give up are now out of use and useless to anyone.


Derrick,

As I think I have tried to mention before the body in question is actually called The Information Tribunal and not the Appeals Tribunal.

See www.informationtribunal.gov.uk

Also there would be no point in appealing over this as most of the 0870 numbers in question are no longer in use and have been replaced by 03 numbers.

There would be more point in submitting a request for the geographic alternate numbers for the 0844 and 0845 numbers still in use by the BBC and by tv licensing and then appealing on those if the BBC won't supply any GN alternatives.
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