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GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire) (Read 707,251 times)
Barbara
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #30 - Jul 15th, 2011 at 5:03pm
 
The thing is, if he is so much in "error" how should patients feel about his medical abilities??  Would you trust him with your health??
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #31 - Jul 15th, 2011 at 7:51pm
 
Barbara wrote on Jul 15th, 2011 at 5:03pm:
The thing is, if he is so much in "error" how should patients feel about his medical abilities??  Would you trust him with your health??

This of course raises a very interesting point.

Like his professional colleagues, Dr Taylor may well be an excellent clinician. We do not expect our physicians to be experts in matters of business, nor do we expect accountants to be experts in matters of medicine. (We expect more of GP practice managers than they commonly deliver - but that is another point.)

The government's decision to place responsibility for secondary care commissioning (i.e. hospital and other health treatment) in the hands of GP-led Clinical Commissioning Groups (formerly known as GP consortia) implies an assumption that clinicians have the necessary business acumen to manage very large budgets and engage in effective negotiation with providers (particular those from the private sector). The need for clinical input to commissioning decisions so that optimum clinical outcomes can be properly considered when allocating scarce financial resources is obvious and vital. One cannot however dismiss the need for proper balanced decision making considering all factors. Clinicians are trained to take the narrow view, considering the patient in front of them at the time and focussing on whatever speciality they may have chosen to pursue. They also are inclined to leave others to worry about financial and commercial issues so as not to distort their clinical judgement.

To leave the allocation of large sums of money to clinicians at a time when its most efficient use is recognised to be of the greatest priority seems somewhat ill-judged. The motivation of those who step forward to accept this responsibility with enthusiasm has to be questioned.

I am not actually that worried that Dr Taylor does not understand telephony and charges. I am concerned that he chooses, or is required, to get into issues outside the area of his competence. It is for pretending authority when speaking nonsense that he is fully worthy of criticism. I am delighted that he has withdrawn from the argument, and hope that he is now considering the situation properly.


On a simple point of fact. It is cleared proved that the geographic number is able to accommodate multiple calls and hold them in a queue - Dr Taylor was quite wrong to imply that this could not be done. The non-geographic number may however be equipped to "stack" an unlimited number of calls if the capacity of the geographic number is exceeded.

"Surgery Line" addresses the problem of inadequate queuing capability by a solution that employs features that are rarely required and thereby not cost effective. It deals with the cost issue by taking advantage of the fact that as well as these features always being available on non-geographic numbers, so is revenue sharing! Misrepresentation of the cost of calling 084 numbers has enabled this solution to be widely adopted.

If one accepts that call queuing can exist at two levels, with the secondary level being referred to as "stacking", then we have a serious misrepresentation from Dr Taylor, but one that may contain an insignificant element of truth. Just because there are many misrepresentations and inaccuracies and there is no question that this practice is in breach of its NHS contract, it does not necessarily follow that the availability of network queueing on non-geographic numbers must be a fallacy.

As campaigners, we have all we need to win this war without having to try to prove that network queueing does not exist. If our case were seen to hinge on such an argument then we may find ourselves losing a battle that undermines the campaign.

I do hope that the surgery will not come back at some point to admit that the geographic number can handle a small queue, but not enough to cope with the Monday morning rush. If it does then this will not make the slightest difference to its breach of the terms of its contract to provide NHS services.

With my notes of caution recorded, I applaud the efforts of SayNoTo0870 in further exposing this case of a breach of the terms of the GP NHS contract. Let us hope that the media coverage leads, as it must, to the withdrawal of the 0844 number.
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Dave
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #32 - Aug 1st, 2011 at 8:31pm
 
The deadline set by Sheffield PCT for its GPs to move to geographically charged number has now passed. Which 084-using surgeries have changed their numbers and which have not?

See Sheffield LINk:

GP phone numbers update (June 27, 2011)
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #33 - Aug 2nd, 2011 at 12:42pm
 
BBC North West Tonight will be covering the story - on air at 6.30 this evening.

Contributions from familiar stars from the "The Apprentice" and elsewhere can be expected.

The programme should be available to view by all at this link from some time this evening until 6.30 p.m. tomorrow.

The North West Tonight item has been covered by this media release, with links to the recording.
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2011 at 3:27am by SilentCallsVictim »  
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loddon
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #34 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 8:42am
 
The BBc asks Matthew Riley "why some patients are still being overcharged?"

This is the top story on the BBC regional programme "North West Tonight".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012ykqz

The issue is covered within the first 4 minutes.  The reporter says the the statement in the House (by Health Minister Anne Milton MP on 12 July 2011) "questions the very lawfulness of his business" ( Daisy --- NEG --- Surgery Line).

Riley tries to say that "we'd only charge a local rate call" and the cost of calls to GPs using the system is nothing to do with him but that it is "just the way the industry works at the moment".    Well done to the BBC recording Riley blatantly telling lies.

A well known campaigner on this issue is seen saying "this is the NHS and in the NHS you do not pay your provider for NHS services".

The reporter quotes the BMA which has issued fresh guidance stating "that existing contracts with firms like Riley's are legal for now (absolutely NOT TRUE) but new contracts will have to ditch the two tier charges".   NO, the BMA should know that GPs using 084 numbers were required by the GMS contract to have stopped using such numbers by end March 2011.   Those that are still using 084 numbers have been in breach of their contracts for over 4 months!! Angry
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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2011 at 2:44pm by loddon »  
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CJT-80
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #35 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:03pm
 
@ SCV nice to see you on TV if only for a brief few moments,

@ loddon - North West Tonight can be contacted via e-mail nwt@bbc.co.uk, might be worth pointing out the truths.

It seems the BMA needs to get it's facts straight!

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CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #36 - Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:34pm
 
CJT-80 wrote on Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:03pm:
@ SCV nice to see you on TV if only for a brief few moments,

Gluttons for punishment can see the showreel (including the NWT clip) at this link.
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idb
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #37 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 12:30am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:34pm:
CJT-80 wrote on Aug 3rd, 2011 at 12:03pm:
@ SCV nice to see you on TV if only for a brief few moments,

Gluttons for punishment can see the showreel (including the NWT clip) at this link.
What a despicable individual (Riley, not the well known campaigner), showcasing corporate Britain at its worst. What I find even more remarkable is the abject failure of any authoritative body to enforce the DH contractual requirements; after all, the non adherence is easy to demonstrate - it is not like proving Fermat's last theorem or anything of any complexity. If this was happening here, this would be in front of the courts before one could say zero-eight-four-four; indeed I would assume that an individual would have an indisputable case if it was brought before an English or other court. The known liars, NEG, are simply making too much out of this scam, and I suspect, have the necessary influence to be able to prolong the exploitation. Is there anyone within HMG with sufficient testicles to enforce these requirements, or is it a typical civil service case of 'nowt to do with me, guv'?
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As from November 21, 2013, I no longer participate in the forum and am unable to receive private messages.
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #38 - Aug 4th, 2011 at 2:52am
 
idb wrote on Aug 4th, 2011 at 12:30am:
Is there anyone within HMG with sufficient testicles to enforce these requirements, or is it a typical civil service case of 'nowt to do with me, guv'?

It is good to have escaped, if only narrowly, from being described as despicable. Sitting in the seat reserved for contributors from "our Westminster studio" with Big Ben over my shoulder is not guaranteed to generate warmth from the audience of a regional news programme.

In any war that is based on the size of gonads, those with a direct personal financial interest are always likely to come out ahead. There is indeed plenty of it, but buck-passing is not restricted to public servants. GPs blame patients who want a better telephone system than that which they had previously, the BMA then blames NEG/Daisy by claiming (I believe falsely) that the contracts prevent Surgery Line users from changing their numbers and Matthew Riley blames the mobile companies and "the industry".

The litigious nature of the US is based on the fact that there is a much stronger sense of individuality, where something like the NHS would be unthinkable. One of the glories of the NHS is that it is supported by a delicate and complex relationship between independent medical practitioners (GPs and consultants) and a state-run system. This tricky balance has led to the situation where the practitioners who were strongly opposed to the NHS at its foundation are now its strongest supporters, because its principles reflect their professional ethics. There are of course individual exceptions and I do not seek to diminish the importance of directly provided NHS services (i.e. hospitals et al).

As we seek to learn lessons from the US, I am not sure that we are heading in the right direction. Matthew Riley achieved some notoriety on "The Apprentice" by inviting candidates to deliver "elevator pitches". If that is how he is hoping to sell the re-branded "Daisy Surgery Line" then one could question his awareness of his market.
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speedy
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #39 - Aug 5th, 2011 at 2:41am
 
Someone should have given Riley a Landline phone On Camera and said to him phone BT and ask them to make 0844 Inclusive on Anytime for instance, to show him up in Public - We all know the result but lots out there dont realise the costs yet - my Neighbour didnt until I pointed it out on her Bill - when Riley and PCTs say Patients should take it up with their Telecom but we all know it is just NEG SPEAK and lies but lots out there dont Angry

I have now got Anytime and no mobiles Plan and as Neighbourhood Watch Local Co-ordinator wanted a Special Police Mobile included in my Plan, because of the local Anti-social Youths if a Tenant is having a problem they phone me and I phone for them to the 'Mobile in a Police Car ' and they are there in minutes and I am given feed back to pass back so the Tenant is not seen to have any connection - but would BT include that Special Number NO

Why do Interviewers never ask the RIGHT questions - not properly researched or paying lip service on orders from above or just plain cant be bothered ?

Pity Robin Day isnt alive today he used to tear apart Scammers on air - it was a joy to see them sqirm - he would have loved to have a go at Riley - I think he could have made him admit that Surgery Line was mis-sold and made him look 2 ins. high  Grin   Would do his Business no good to be shown as having mis-sold Surgery Line - Banks had to payback for mis-selling why not him ?

Isnt there anything Trading Standards can do regarding being mis-sold ?

On one of David's Blogs links when GPs were told to stop using 0870 in 2005 they were told to get 0844 or 0845 lo-call why wasn't the MOH or BMA or who-ever told then that it was wrong - we wouldn't still be on it now  Roll Eyes

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speedy
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #40 - Aug 5th, 2011 at 10:03pm
 
Correction to previous post it was Gilbert Harding that made them sqirm not Robin Day  Embarrassed

I had spent a frustrating day knowing it was the wrong name - turned the kitchen light on and out came the right name - I would love to see Riley in one of those Interviews  Grin

Update on those useless Job Clubs - they wont redo his CV and wont help him onto this Companies waiting list so I have told him to get one of the others more PC literate than him to email the CV to me and I will do it for him - This is what we are paying our Taxes for - another sticking plaster while it festers underneath.

If he gets a job from this list I want to put him on and is safely out of their clutches I intend puting a complaint about them
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #41 - Aug 22nd, 2011 at 6:42pm
 
I have finally corrected an omission by acknowledging that our National Health Service does include Northern Ireland.

My database of GPs has been extended to now cover all of the UK.
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Dave
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #42 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 5:26pm
 
I've compiled a list of call rates which show that 0844 and 0845 numbers do cost more and you can download by visiting my blog: NHS GP Telephone Numbers: Analysis of call rates.

Despite this, Quorn Medical Centre switched over to a 0844 g11 number on 11th August.

On the news page it says:

Quote:
With the new system … Your call will not cost more than a local call from your provider.

As there are many providers for which this statement is false, the only way that this statement can be true is if patients do not and will never subscribe to the following:
  • Fixed lines:
    • AOL "Unlimited"
    • BT "Anytime"
    • First Telecom "Anytime" and "Evening & Weekend"
    • O2 Home Phone "Anytime"
    • Orange Home Phone "Anytime Calls"
    • Phone Co-op "Anytime"
    • Pipex "Anytime"
    • Plusnet "Anytime"
    • Primus Saver "Phone Max"
    • Sky Talk "Unlimited"
    • TalkTalk "Anytime"
    • TalkTalk Onetel "Total UK Talk"
    • Tesco Home Phone "Anytime"
    • Vodafone at Home
    • Virgin Media "Anytime"
    • YourCalls.net "Anytime" and "Evening & Weekend"
  • Mobile phones:
    • 3 Pay Monthly and Pay as you Go
    • Giffgaff
    • O2 Pay Monthly and Pay as you Go
    • Orange Pay Monthly and Pay as you Go
    • T-Mobile Pay Monthly and Pay as you Go
    • Vectone Mobile Pay Monthly and Pay as you Go
    • Virgin Mobile Pay Monthly and Pay as you Go
    • Vodafone Pay Monthly
  • Public payphones:
    • BT Payphones
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Barbara
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #43 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 5:42pm
 
Dave, to your list you can add Utility Warehouse/Telecom Plus!   They also charge more for 0845/0844 & exclude these from ANytime packages.
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Dave
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #44 - Aug 30th, 2011 at 5:54pm
 
Barbara wrote on Aug 30th, 2011 at 5:42pm:
Dave, to your list you can add Utility Warehouse/Telecom Plus!   They also charge more for 0845/0844 & exclude these from ANytime packages.

Those on the list in my posting immediately above yours are the ones I included in my paper NHS GP Telephone Numbers: Analysis of Call Rates (PDF).

The extensive number of providers on the list contained within serves its purpose which is to demonstrate that not paying more is so unlikely that it's practically non-existant. It is therefore not my intention to add to that list.

I did look at Utility Warehouse when compiling the list, but decided not to put it in because it would appear to be in breach of the relevant General Condition because it doesn't seem to publish 0844 call rates as it should.
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