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GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire) (Read 619,058 times)
loddon
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #15 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 2:52pm
 
A sensible idea Barbara.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #16 - Jun 27th, 2011 at 5:35pm
 
loddon wrote on Jun 27th, 2011 at 2:52pm:
A sensible idea Barbara.

I fully agree.

Most of my stuff is aimed at PCTs and goes into the detail of the terms of the GP contracts and the ways in which GPs are encouraged to evade their responsibilities. I do publish summarised tables of call costs, which should make the point, however misrepresentations of the GPs' duty cause these to be deemed irrelevant.

The issue is indeed very simple, however the BMA, NEG and the DH carry more weight with many people when they seek to complicate it.

I would be delighted if someone was able to pull the relevant points into a very simple document that would make the situation clear and counter all of the wriggles proposed by NEG et al.
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Dave
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #17 - Jun 30th, 2011 at 7:46pm
 
A new surgery in Lewes has joined the 084 co-payment club. Riverlodge and Ringmer Surgeries now charge patients a fee to speak on the telephone (as well as charging them the premium to sit in a queue).

Meanwhile, in Chigwell, a lady was unable to speak to her GP due to the prohibitive cost of ringing his 0844 premium number from her pay as you go mobile:

CHIGWELL: Seriously ill patient unable to afford premium rate call charge
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« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2011 at 7:47pm by Dave »  
 
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CJT-80
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #18 - Jun 30th, 2011 at 10:21pm
 
It would appear the OLD numbers are printed on the following PDF

http://www.riverlodge-ringmersurgeries.co.uk/riverlodge-ringmersurgeries.pdf

Might be worth noting them and seeing if they work "after" the new system is set up.

On a seperate but valid note my local PCT informed me that my local surgery had put in a new telephone system to make to make it easier for us to call them, and it's features were benefited but the 0844 number. I intend to point out that their patients are "paying" for the new system out of OUR pockets and I for one no longer intend to do so!

Just thought I'd put my 2p in!

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CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #19 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 4:02am
 
CJT-80 wrote on Jun 30th, 2011 at 10:21pm:
It would appear the OLD numbers are printed on the following PDF

http://www.riverlodge-ringmersurgeries.co.uk/riverlodge-ringmersurgeries.pdf

Might be worth noting them and seeing if they work "after" the new system is set up.

On a seperate but valid note my local PCT informed me that my local surgery had put in a new telephone system to make to make it easier for us to call them, and it's features were benefited but the 0844 number. I intend to point out that their patients are "paying" for the new system out of OUR pockets and I for one no longer intend to do so!

Just thought I'd put my 2p in!


The old River Lodge number has gone, the Ringmer one will follow soon.


What did "your" PCT say about compliance with clause 29B of the GMS contract?

If you send me the details, I will offer some training for them.
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CJT-80
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #20 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 10:08am
 
Good Morning SCV,

what is clause 29B of the GMS contact?

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CJT-80

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #21 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 4:23pm
 
CJT-80 wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 10:08am:
Good Morning SCV,

what is clause 29B of the GMS contact?

The GMS contract (approved by parliament) is the basis for the relationship between a GP and the NHS - it is enforced by PCTs.

Clause 29B was added in April 2010. See - Standard General Medical Services contract.

Quote:
29B. The Contractor shall not enter into, renew or extend a contract or other arrangement for telephone services unless it is satisfied that, having regard to the arrangement as a whole, persons will not pay more to make relevant calls to the practice than they would to make equivalent calls to a geographical number.

29B.1.      Where the Contractor is party to an existing contract or other arrangement for telephone services under which persons making relevant calls to the practice call a number which is not a geographical number, the Contractor must comply with sub-clause 29B.2.

29B.2.      The Contractor shall—
29B.2.1.      before 1st April 2011, review the arrangement and consider whether, having regard to the arrangement as a whole, persons pay more to make relevant calls than they would to make equivalent calls to a geographical number, ...

It goes on to require the Contractor to take the necessary steps to cease use of a prohibited telephone number. As all network telephone companies allow immediate migration from 084 to 034 numbers at any point during the term of the arrangement there is no case where a practice could not comply.

Some PCTs are eventually starting to catch on to the fact that some practices have failed to properly "review the arrangement". They have either failed to do so at all (following advice from the BMA) or are clearly seen to have made a mistaken determination.

Most PCTs would have no good reason to suspect that GPs would fail to perform the duties demanded of them, or would do so improperly. They have had to draw on assistance from friends who have pointed this out to them. I was wondering if "your PCT" could be in need of such assistance.
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Barbara
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #22 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 5:09pm
 
SCV, there is one part of this whole matter that has concerned me for some time; could the GPs etc argue that "having regard to the arrangement as a whole" allows them to argue that it is not the cost to individual patients that matters as long as, for example, BT customers pay no more than the equivalent geo rate and that it is up to the individual if they choose a telecoms provider, even mobile, who charges more ie is that a "get out" clause?   Your advice on this would be appreciated as I am involved in a battle over hospitals using 0845 & want to be prepared for any reply.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #23 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:15pm
 
Barbara wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 5:09pm:
SCV, there is one part of this whole matter that has concerned me for some time; could the GPs etc argue that "having regard to the arrangement as a whole" allows them to argue that it is not the cost to individual patients that matters as long as, for example, BT customers pay no more than the equivalent geo rate and that it is up to the individual if they choose a telecoms provider, even mobile, who charges more ie is that a "get out" clause?   Your advice on this would be appreciated as I am involved in a battle over hospitals using 0845 & want to be prepared for any reply.

Anyone providing NHS services must accept that "the arrangement as a whole" is a simple recognition that the NHS is a universal service.

The "whole" means including all parts, all patients, not just a subset who perhaps choose a particular telephone service provider and Call Plan [and then breach the terms of that Call Plan by making geographic calls during times when it does not apply, thereby incurring penalty charges]. (The latter, bracketed, part only applies to 0844, not 0845, numbers.)

There is nothing whatsoever in the clear terms that refers to anything other than what "persons" actually pay to call the NHS Provider, as against the cost of an equivalent call to a geographic number. "Equivalent" can only mean under the terms of the same service from the same provider. It is the reality of the situation which is addressed, not some assumed "norm". It is totally wrong for anyone to suggest that the wholly anomalous case of BT, which originates only 25% of non-business UK calls, is in any way representative of the general position.

The essential wording quoted above is also found in the Directions to NHS Bodies, which apply to hospitals (and also those few GPs subject to a PMS contract).

(If anything interesting is happening with Chase Farm since I was last involved, or perhaps you have found another, please drop me a message.)
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Dave
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #24 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:21pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:15pm:
(If anything interesting is happening with Chase Farm since I was last involved, or perhaps you have found another, please drop me a message.)

Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust chooses to promote its telephone number, 0845 111 4000 as a "BT lo-call rate number".  Lips Sealed
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #25 - Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:26pm
 
Dave wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:21pm:
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:15pm:
(If anything interesting is happening with Chase Farm since I was last involved, or perhaps you have found another, please drop me a message.)

Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust chooses to promote its telephone number, 0845 111 4000 as a "BT lo-call rate number".  Lips Sealed

... it has also been going through something of a crisis regarding its future ...
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allegro
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #26 - Jul 2nd, 2011 at 7:52am
 
Dave wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:21pm:
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 1st, 2011 at 6:15pm:
(If anything interesting is happening with Chase Farm since I was last involved, or perhaps you have found another, please drop me a message.)

Barnet and Chase Farm Hospitals NHS Trust chooses to promote its telephone number, 0845 111 4000 as a "BT lo-call rate number".  Lips Sealed


Though to be fair they give out 020 numbers on the same page. Shame they promote the 0845 number above the others.
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Dave
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #27 - Jul 8th, 2011 at 9:04am
 
An update on the situation in South Yorkshire:

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/health/deadline_for_gps_phones_1_3552523

The response sent to Sheffield LINk (Local Involvement Network) says that the PCT is giving surgeries until the end of July to switch back geographic-charging numbers.
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #28 - Jul 15th, 2011 at 9:54am
 
Dave wrote on Jun 24th, 2011 at 8:52pm:
A story published by the Ongar Gazette today:

084 number costs some BT callers 13p a minute

A HEALTH centre is being accused of charging patients premium rates to call its phone number.

Patients using the Ongar Health Centre have complained they are being charged more than the cost of a standard call when calling the surgery.

A follow-up article is carried on this week's Gazette and is now available to read online:

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/GP-slammed-forcing-public-pay-084-number/story...

Quote:
Dr Hugh Taylor, a senior partner at the Banson's Lane surgery, previously told the Gazette the surgery could not use a geographical phone number because a BT line cannot stack calls.

Now a campaign group, saynoto0870.com, has claimed the surgery does have a geographical phone number that can stack calls.

Calls made by the Gazette to both numbers took our reporter to the surgery's automatic answering service.

A spokesman for the group said: "We think Dr Taylor does have a local number. We have called it several times and we have established it can handle queues."

The geographical phone number for the surgery is 01277 369610, which patients can call to avoid paying the premium-rate number.

Dr Taylor's system uses a local 01277 number which allows multiple calls. He has said previously that the surgery uses a 0844 number because a standard BT line cannot stack calls.

This proves that he has a standard number which can stack calls.
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« Last Edit: Jul 15th, 2011 at 9:57am by Dave »  
 
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Re: GPs in South Yorkshire (and other areas)
Reply #29 - Jul 15th, 2011 at 2:49pm
 
Dave wrote on Jul 15th, 2011 at 9:54am:
This proves that he has a standard number which can stack calls.

And that Dr Taylor is, at best, in error or misinformed.

But I'm sure he won't worry too much whilst he continues to bank the share of the extra charges his NHS patents have to pay.

FREE AT THE POINT OF USE.
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« Last Edit: Jul 15th, 2011 at 2:49pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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