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GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire) (Read 712,321 times)
catj
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Re: Two-tier NHS.
Reply #495 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 2:53pm
 
Table of features for the new two-tier NHS...

01/02 without call features Revenue-share 0843/0844
Caller has BT landline Free in inclusive minutes. 5 p/min
Caller has non-BT landline Free in inclusive minutes. 5 to 10 p/min
Caller has contract mobile Free in inclusive minutes. 25 to 41 p/min
Caller has pay-as-you-go mobile 20 to 35 p/min (less with bolt-on). 25 to 45 p/min
Access May have to redial many times until surgery has no queue. Those willing to "pay more" for access get into the queue immediately.
Billing Pay nothing to hear "engaged" tone. Pay nothing to redial. Pay (or use inclusive minutes) only while speaking to someone and while they place you on hold. Pay to hear menu options. Pay while held in the queue. Pay while speaking. Pay while on hold.
Impact Caller may be forced to redial many times. Caller forced to pay for "premium rate" number.
Revenue earned by GP Nothing. 4 p/min while caller listens to options, queues, speaks and is on-hold.

An 03 number would allow queueing, but the caller would pay the same rates as calling 01 and 02 numbers.

It's also possible to have queueing and other call features on 01 and 02 numbers.
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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2013 at 4:05pm by catj »  
 
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Keith
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #496 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 3:47pm
 
My initial reaction to this development was fine, until I discussed it with SCV a few weeks ago.

If the geo number is also getting answered at the same time that is ok, but if it is just allowed to ring until the 0844 calls are answered then it is useless and just a con. Worse if it is engaged because somehow it is merged with the 0844 number and will be engaged until all those in the queue are answered.

Anyone have any idea how these apparently parallel numbers will work?
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catj
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #497 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:28pm
 
0844 numbers often map to a standard 01 or 02 number. The 0844 software holds, stacks and queue calls, until the 01 or 02 number is free and then puts them through. Whenever the line to the surgery is taking a call, dialling the geographic number will signal as engaged.

One GP, I can't remember which, said that the geographic number will be engaged whenever they are in a call, whether the caller they are speaking to dialled the 01/02 or the 084 number. Since the queueing system puts the next call through as soon as the previous call ends, the implication is that the 01 or 02 number will "ring" only when there is not a call in progress AND there is no-one in the 0844 queue.
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Keith
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #498 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:50pm
 
If you are right catj then that is unacceptable and a true two tier system. The geo number callers will always have to wait for all the 0844 calls to be dealt with (even if they called many minutes later as long as a queue still exists) and therefore probably not get an appointment.

I can see this as the next con that the PCTs accept as meeting the DofH requirements
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speedy
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #499 - Jan 10th, 2013 at 12:10am
 
You are dead correct catj on your explaination. So many people still dont understand what is accepted 'On Plan' BT Anytime etc. and what is Off Plan, I found 2 people only yesterday.

I have complained to my PCT about their 'Nil Action' in the past, on which they said they would now email 0844 GPs and ask them to explain their Compliance and that now they have said that they will 'Recommend ' this '2 Tier System ' as Compliiance with the GMS Contract. 

The PCT stated that it doesnt say in the 'Variation' that the PCT has to be 'satisfied' and that only the GP has to be 'Satisfied' in other words 'Nothing' will change as before.

The PCT also stated that they would be escalating it to the National Commissioning Board as it is a National Issue.  Too Right so will I.

They also ended with 'If you are not satisfied with our reply you may wish to contact Health Ombudsman'  WHICH I AM,
with advice from SCV. My PCT will taking their Crxp Policy to my local CCG after April so I will still be on their Case.

If we could get a few more people to follow this Route - Complain to your local PCT - then advance to Health Ombudsman it is another way to get GPs 0844 noticed Nationally not just my Local Area.

I will post the Link if I can find it, to the Kent Messenger Articles from Oct. last year.

http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/uploads/1/1/4/5/11456053/more_from_kent.pdf#page=...

Found another Link - hope this works, looks promising  Cool
SCV will tell you I am still rubbish with most Links  Embarrassed
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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2013 at 1:15am by speedy »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #500 - Jan 10th, 2013 at 1:30am
 
Keith wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 3:47pm:
Anyone have any idea how these apparently parallel numbers will work?

A credible explanation was offered to me by a representative of a well known provider of Surgery telephone systems recently.

This is found in a briefing on the topic of the Two Tier NHS
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speedy
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #501 - Jan 10th, 2013 at 12:54pm
 
As I said in my previous post Thanks catj for the explanation of Costs.

Could I cheekily make a suggestion regarding your Costs table. At the top of the column heading Revenue-share you have only put 084 could you please add the extra 4 to save confusion by the General Public very many of which are still confused about the difference between 0844 and 0845

My ulterior motive for this suggestion is because I have used several of your tables to show others not as as knowledgable as most on this Forum. 
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catj
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #502 - Jan 10th, 2013 at 1:57pm
 
That request is not at all cheeky. It's a really good point.

I originally had "0844" there, then decided to change it as it also applies to 0843.

However, I lost the plot by putting "084" as the table does not quite apply to 0845.

0845 has a revenue share of about 2 p/min.
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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2013 at 2:32pm by catj »  
 
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speedy
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #503 - Jan 10th, 2013 at 11:43pm
 
Thanks catj  Grin Grin Cool
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #504 - Jan 12th, 2013 at 11:00pm
 
According to a posting made on one of the Which? Conversations, The Wolds Practice has just changed over to a g11 0844 number.
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bigjohn
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Daily Star run with article about GPs use of 0844.
Reply #505 - Feb 17th, 2013 at 2:12am
 
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BJ.
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Daily Star run with article about GPs use of 0844.
Reply #506 - Feb 17th, 2013 at 3:12am
 
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speedy
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #507 - Feb 20th, 2013 at 1:15pm
 
Hi catj

You have a PM  Grin Grin
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« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2013 at 1:14am by speedy »  
 
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sherbert
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Re: Surgeries saying no to 0844!
Reply #508 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 11:31am
 
http://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/health/calls-to-gps-cost-up-to-20p-a-min-1-4...

Published on Saturday 9 March 2013 08:00

Doctors surgeries in Horsham are still only offering 0844 contact numbers despite Department of Health guidance against the use of high rate numbers.

Outside Horsham, surgeries use geographical numbers, but Holbrook Surgery, Park Surgery and Riverside Surgery still have 0844 numbers even though the guidelines were brought in two years ago. They are not premium rate, but are more expensive to call from mobiles and non-BT landlines.

Barry Lynch a patient of Riverside surgery said his mobile operator charged him 20p a minute for a call his GP recently.

Park Surgery, featured in the County Times on this subject last year, now provides an 01403 number alongside its 0844 number.

A spokesman for NHS Sussex said: “No practice in Sussex uses a premium rate number. However, 084 numbers can cost more to call than other landlines.

“The exact cost depends on your individual phone package. In the last few years, across the country, many practices bought 084 numbers as they can help with directing callers to the right person. Practices are now required to check whether a person calling their practice pays more than the cost of a call to an 01 number - a geographical telephone number. If that is the case then the practice must take action.

“Terminating 084 numbers before the end of the contract can incur heavy fees - in order to make the best use of public money some GP practices have taken actions such as offering an 01 number alongside the 084 number or calling patients back. This is in line with national requirements.”

“We take our responsibility on this matter very seriously and continue to work with GP practices to ensure there are no barriers to patients contacting their GP practice.”

The County Times asked Holbrook and Riverside Surgeries for comment, but did not receive a reply.
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Dave
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #509 - Mar 9th, 2013 at 11:42am
 
sherbert wrote on Mar 9th, 2013 at 11:31am:
A spokesman for NHS Sussex said: “No practice in Sussex uses a premium rate number. However, 084 numbers can cost more to call than other landlines.

That is correct, 0844 numbers are not Premium Rate Services (PRS). Each 0844 number carries a premium, soon to be openly declared and referred to as a Service Charge.


sherbert wrote on Mar 9th, 2013 at 11:31am:
“Terminating 084 numbers before the end of the contract can incur heavy fees - in order to make the best use of public money some GP practices have taken actions such as offering an 01 number alongside the 084 number or calling patients back. This is in line with national requirements.”

Our NHS is supposed to be "free at the point of need" and funded from "public money". It is therefore not for providers to  charge patients, as they are doing.

The PCT now advocates a two-tier NHS, which it claims is in line with "national requirements".
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