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GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire) (Read 619,057 times)
bigjohn
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #645 - Jul 26th, 2014 at 4:08am
 
Three Barking and Dagenham GP surgeries still using 0844.

http://www.barkinganddagenhampost.co.uk/news/patients_face_calling_premium_rate_...
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« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2014 at 4:10am by bigjohn »  

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #646 - Jul 30th, 2014 at 8:58pm
 
Members and visitors may be interested to note that a newly published list of the 350 surgeries still shown by NHS Choices to be in breach of their NHS contracts is exciting some media interest, including a radio item scheduled for tomorrow lunchtime.

See the fair telecoms campaign newsfeed for details of the story and links to coverage as it arises.

Edited:
Error in posting corrected

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« Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2014 at 9:24pm by SilentCallsVictim »  
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kasg
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #647 - Jul 30th, 2014 at 9:13pm
 
The URL has a spurious character in so doesn't work. Fixed, thanks.
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« Last Edit: Aug 1st, 2014 at 9:45am by kasg »  
 
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bigjohn
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Greater Manchester Doctors Still Using 0844.
Reply #648 - Sep 21st, 2014 at 4:49am
 
"A dozen surgeries in Greater Manchester are using premium 0844 numbers that can cost patients up to 41p a minute from a mobile phone"

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/premium-rate...
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« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2014 at 4:50am by bigjohn »  

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Two more Surgeries move from 0844 to 02 numbers
Reply #649 - Dec 23rd, 2014 at 8:29pm
 
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bigjohn
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Millions Of Patients Still Being Ripped Off.
Reply #650 - May 10th, 2015 at 6:19am
 
A total of 180 surgeries are continuing to use expensive numbers five years after being ordered to stop


See: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/millions-patients-still-being-ripped-off-56...

Good to see David H and the other Fair Telecoms Campaign guys keeping the pressure on. Smiley
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2015 at 6:25am by bigjohn »  

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Ian01
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #651 - May 10th, 2015 at 8:26am
 

"Calls to the surgery incur a 7p per minute Service Charge on top of your phone provider's Access Charge".

Whatever happened to "free at the point of need"?
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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2015 at 8:27am by Ian01 »  
 
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #652 - May 15th, 2015 at 4:21pm
 
Clayton Medical Centre in Clayton-le-Moors has just changed from 08444771761 to 01254-300250.
My mother is one over 30 patients in a care home all being cared for by this doctor and they ring most days apparently. The manager of the care home is understandably rather pleased(!)
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CJT-80
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #653 - Jul 17th, 2015 at 2:12pm
 
CJT-80 wrote on Dec 31st, 2012 at 6:28pm:
catj wrote on Dec 30th, 2012 at 3:34am:
Hmm.  The surgery is on Twitter:  @belmonthillgp  https://twitter.com/belmonthillgp


Latest Tweet encourages patients to get involved in the Patient Participation Group, perhaps anyone who visits or uses this site, may be interested to join and to work with the surgery to scrap it's 0844 number?

Best to work on the inside if you can.

Smiley

** edited to add a W to Tweet **  Grin


Sorry to drag this one back up, but ironically since moving back to London this is now my local Surgery and I am a member of the PPG.  Suffice to say the Surgery realised how it had been conned and is doing it's best to get shot of the 084 number as soon as it's out of contract.

Did someone say previously that there was a way to get an 034 number instead?  Please feel free to comment here or PM me with more info.

Thanks.
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Ian01
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #654 - Jul 17th, 2015 at 2:18pm
 

They need to contact their telecoms provider and ask for the matching 0344 number to be activated and a free-to-caller message added to the 0844 number advising of the new number. Alternatively, they can request a new 030 number.

This is the 'reasonable step' that their GMS or PMS contract required them to take by 1 April 2011.

This change should not generate any penalty charges on their telecoms contract. Once the change has been made, the practice will become liable for the call handling charges for incoming calls and paying off the lease for switchboard equipment that may have come as part of the deal.

Adding a cheap number in parallel to the 0844 number is not an option. There is no place in the NHS for a two-tier service based on willingness or ability to pay.

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« Last Edit: Jul 17th, 2015 at 2:38pm by Ian01 »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #655 - Jul 17th, 2015 at 2:30pm
 
It seems that this practice has a contract with Daisy (formerly NEG) and uses the Surgery Line system.

We have repeatedly published the following statement from the Senior Press Officer of Daisy Group (issued on 12 June 2013)
Quote:
1.      Surgery Line customers are NOT forced to continue using 0844 numbers until their long-term contracts end - it is open to them to move to a geographic number on request
2.      Such customers can switch, free of charge, to numbers charged at the geographic rate

It was subsequently confirmed that this was a reference to switching their 0844 number - not simply adding a second number alongside.

That is good enough for me. It is however for the practice to make the necessary request, or be compelled to do so by whoever enforces compliance with the terms of its NHS contract - originally the PCT, then NHS England, now commonly the CCG of which it is a member.

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CJT-80
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #656 - Jul 17th, 2015 at 4:53pm
 
Thank you SCV for that info.

I will pass it onto the Surgery.

I know they have a Geographic Number, but it is alongside the existing 084 number.  I will point out to them that they can request the 084 number be changed.

Many Thanks.
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CJT-80

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CJT-80
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #657 - Sep 18th, 2015 at 10:50am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 17th, 2015 at 2:30pm:
It seems that this practice has a contract with Daisy (formerly NEG) and uses the Surgery Line system.

We have repeatedly published the following statement from the Senior Press Officer of Daisy Group (issued on 12 June 2013)
Quote:
1.      Surgery Line customers are NOT forced to continue using 0844 numbers until their long-term contracts end - it is open to them to move to a geographic number on request
2.      Such customers can switch, free of charge, to numbers charged at the geographic rate

It was subsequently confirmed that this was a reference to switching their 0844 number - not simply adding a second number alongside.


Further to this post, I have reason to believe that Daisy Group CAN change the telephone number without any charge to an 020 number, however (and this is not a justification of the use of the 0844 number) any surgery that simply changes to a Geographic number looses the queueing facility.  Clearly this is NEG/Daisy's "fault", as the telecom's provider, in making sure they get maximum revenue out of the contract which they provided to the GP Practice. 

I am sure there are other methods of retaining the queueing facility but not without additional costs involved.

It would therefore be reasonable to suggest that a Surgery would inform it's patients (especially those who call in) that they will no longer be able to hold to speak to someone and will now get an engaged tone, before it then confirms the changes to NEG/Daisy Group.

Important Note

The purpose of this post is to highlight that not all GP Surgeries are at fault in presently retaining these numbers, they maybe in active conversation with their Telecoms Provider and are attempting to make the necessary changes to benefit their patients (will cheaper call charges) whilst still giving them the ability to get through easily.
----------------------------

All of the above is my opinion on this situation.
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CJT-80

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Ian01
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #658 - Sep 18th, 2015 at 11:38am
 

The problem is, they were required by an amendment to their GMS or PMS contract to have this conversation in the period April 2010 to March 2011 and withdraw any 084 numbers by 1 April 2011. Similarly, any usage of 087 and 09 numbers should have ceased in 2005.

The technical facilities of a non-geographic number (queueing, menu options, announcements and call-forwarding) have to be paid for. This is often in the range 1p to 2p per minute for calls forwarded to a UK landline and a bit more if calls are forwarded to a UK mobile. Non-geographic numbers begin 03, 08 or 09 and all offer the same technical facilities. The difference comes in who pays for them.

With 084, 087 and 09 numbers the call-handling and call-forwarding costs are paid for by callers through the imposition of a declared Service Charge (with any remainder being available as revenue share either as a cash payment or as a discount off other telephony services or used to pay off a lease for e.g. switchboard equipment).

With 03 and 080 numbers the call-handling and call-forwarding costs are paid for by the called party. This is the arrangement that customer service, public services and healthcare providers should be using.

Providers of non-geographic numbers offer number migration facilities within the lifetime of a telephone services contract as long as the funding arrangements are adapted to cover the loss of subsidy when moving from a number with a Service Charge to one without. The most obvious and simple migration is from a number starting 084 or 087 to the matching number starting 034 or 037.

While standard landlines do not have the advanced facilities that are available on a non-geographic number it is possible to obtain a 'virtual geographic number' starting 01 or 02 that behaves like a non-geographic number and has all the same facilities and which forwards the calls to a normal landline or mobile in the same way as non-geographic calls are forwarded. Call-handling and call-forwarding costs incurred by the called party are the same as for the 03 option.

One final point on costs. With 080 numbers the called party also pays an additional Call Origination Fee to compensate the caller's landline or mobile provider for the fact the caller paid nothing for the call. This fee is around 2p per minute for incoming calls made from landlines and around 5p per minute for incoming calls made from mobiles. For incoming calls made from BT payphones, this fee is around 80p per minute.

GPs have had more than five years to make these changes. The deadline for doing so expired more than four years ago. There can be no excuse for this delay, especially given that NHS England sent out a letter almost two years ago busting various myths that practices were using as excuses for remaining non-compliant.

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« Last Edit: Sep 19th, 2015 at 1:19am by Ian01 »  
 
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CJT-80
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Re: GPs all over England (not just in South Yorkshire)
Reply #659 - Sep 18th, 2015 at 12:15pm
 
I am not in anyway disputing that they should have already made the changes, but I feel that there has been an increased emphasis on "beating" the surgeries who still have these numbers. 

I am sure that certainly surgeries that I have involvement with are doing their best to resolve a situation that they have clearly previous walked into blind.

It's a clearly difficult catch 22 situation, which while it appears "easy" to resolve it is far from easy.

I fully support the need to only be charged a geographic rate to speak to a GP/Hospital/Dentist or similar healthcare related service.  I was simply highlighting the issues that may be faced by a surgery making those changes.
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CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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