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John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844 (Read 141,471 times)
Barbara
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #15 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:32am
 
Hope this doesn't sound too negative but I think that is really a bit of a nothing "cop out" response.   Firstly, what on earth is an "omnichannel" retailer???!!!   It's certainly not a term I have heard previously & to me is totally meaningless jargon.   Further, I would agree customers do not expect to ring a store & get a centralised system, I think most customers would expect, as I do, to ring the store & get through to a human being at that store who can help with my specific question, such as "do you have any X in stock, can you see it on the shelf & can you put one aside for me that I can collect?"   All this to avoid a wasted journey, most such retailers suggest checking stock with them before making a significant journey.  As I have said so many times on this issue, I don't have to insert a coin to gain entry to the store, I don't have to pay for an appointment with a member of the sales staff, so why should I have to pay the store to make contact by phone?   The whole point about JL & why one might choose it over other retailers is that their staff are properly trained about the products they sell (my daughter used to work for them years ago).   With a centralised system, you have staff with no in depth knowledge of a particular store or their stocks (computer stock listings are notoriously unreliable) and so are pretty useless, it's the personal, informed contact which made JL different.   In spite of the fine words, this just seem an example of JL following the bad example of so many other organisations where the customer has become merely a milch cow to be exploited as opposed to a valued asset for their business.
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Dave
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #16 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 3:00pm
 
Barbara wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:32am:
… Firstly, what on earth is an "omnichannel" retailer???!!!   It's certainly not a term I have heard previously & to me is totally meaningless jargon. …

"Omni" means "all" or "every". A "channel" is a means of access. I would have thought "multi-channel" would have been a more fitting word. Anyway, the response continues: "customers continue to have ways to get in contact which carry no additional cost, these include email, social media and in person at our 39 shops". These are the "channels" previously referred to.


Barbara wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:32am:
… Further, I would agree customers do not expect to ring a store & get a centralised system, I think most customers would expect, as I do, to ring the store & get through to a human being at that store who can help with my specific question, such as "do you have any X in stock, can you see it on the shelf & can you put one aside for me that I can collect?"   All this to avoid a wasted journey, most such retailers suggest checking stock with them before making a significant journey. …

The reason for non-geographic numbers being introduced is given: it is because telephone calls are answered centrally which makes geographic numbers innappropriate for the reason you highlight.

Presumably the centralised call centre has access to stock levels, which means that all in the above quote is not an issue. Indeed, it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility these days for a website to give stock levels.


Barbara wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:32am:
… With a centralised system, you have staff with no in depth knowledge of a particular store or their stocks (computer stock listings are notoriously unreliable) and so are pretty useless, it's the personal, informed contact which made JL different. …

I cannot think that any business would implement a system and then disregard it due to unreliability. If it isn't satisfactorily reliable then it is of no use and therefore a wasted expense.
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« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2013 at 6:07pm by Dave »  
 
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Barbara
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #17 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 3:59pm
 
Dave, please believe me, centralised contact centres for stock levels are USELESS.   Many times, I have been searching for an item, particularly clothing, in a store, I have then asked at the counter, the assistant says she will just check, uses the computer system, said yes they do have the said item in the size requested but then they cannot find it, I have regularly been told that the computerised stock levels are not regularly updated (perhaps only once a day, sometimes less frequently) and the only fool proof means of checking if a particular store has a particular item is a manual search, as one assistant at JL said to me: "It's only definitely here if I can lay hands on it now & put it to one side for you" hence the need to phone the particular department in a particular store for a manual check before, in my case, setting out on what would be a 100 mile round trip to my nearest JL!

It is also the case that, until now, the staff in John Lewis stores generally have an extremely good product knowledge, both technical and, if they can see the item, descriptive, eg they can give me an idea of size (not all the items would have dimensions in online descriptions and that is all a call centre operator would be able to access).

These are the very things that set JL customer service apart and this change now reduces them to the same level as all the others.   They are not always the cheapest, in spite of their price guarantee (which does have exclusions anyway) so now there is absolutely no reason to put myself out to use them.

By the way, I know what "omni" means (from the Latin), my point was that it is yet more pointless jargon, there are far better plain English means of saying what he is trying to say.   As for other "channels" of contact, if I am planning to visit one of their stores for a particular item, I need to be able to contact that store (see above for why) just before setting out to check their stock, I would not, for example, want to email 24 hours in advance (I suspect that or longer is their guaranteed time for a response).   I do not use social media and object most strongly to the growing trend of companies to try & force people to do this by restricting other means of access (I suspect merely so that they can gather personal data).

In my view, there is absolutely no justification whatsoever for JL's change to 0844 numbers, other than (1) to make revenue from customers who need to call them; (2) to reduce the numbers of staff in store to increase profits while decreasing customer service.
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Ian G
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #18 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 6:56pm
 
While multi-channel means there's more than one, I think omni-channel is meant to convey that they cover every channel.
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Re: Hall of Shame: Companies changing numbers
Reply #19 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 10:18pm
 
loddon wrote on Sep 10th, 2013 at 11:14am:
loddon wrote on Sep 5th, 2013 at 3:03pm:
Any response will be posted here.   


We have received a reply from John Lewis, so as promised it is reproduced below.

And what utter clap-trap it is. A ludicrous decision with a further attempt to justify it with marketing nonsense from some MBA hipster idiot who presumably has never dialed an 0844 number and checked his bill. What is depressing in this specific case is that JLP has a favorable image with both customers and employees together with strong financial performance. This idiotic decision will simply annoy many of its customers. Omnichannel...... really!
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allegro
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #20 - Sep 11th, 2013 at 8:13am
 
Sounds like the guy actually believes the rubbish he's writing. If people of that calibre are running JL then it's a sad day for the company (or strictly speaking, Partnership).

I don't know his history within JL but their senior staff are normally promoted from within. Perhaps it's just another case of the Peter Principle - he's risen to the level of his own incompetence.
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #21 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:46am
 
My first post to this forum. I have also been in dialogue with JLP about their use of 0844 numbers for customer service and can report the following.
I was originally given the line about them being frequently included in call packages on August 10. After I asked them to prove it they replied on August 15th that they had been "misadvised" on that point - so they are still using that line even though they know it is not true. Subsequently I was given the twaddle about omni-channel retailer but did get them to confirm that they make money from the 0844 number. I then wrote a letter which was published in the Guardian Money section of Aug 31 inviting others to complain to JLP.
I will now email the CEO to add weight to the complaints of other in this forum.
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Barbara
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #22 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 11:43am
 
Welcome to the forum & congratulations on your activities on this matter.    It now remains to be seen whether, knowing & admitting their errors, they will actually see fit to correct them & revert to geographical numbers directly connecting to the stores.   We will be interested in any further contact you have.
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Heinz
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #23 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 3:43pm
 
I tweeted yesterday: Quote:
I just found the Email for the @johnlewisretail MD on http://ceoemail.com ; & next is my email of disgust on their change to 0844 numbers.

They emailed me asking for email contact. 

Well, as I'd already done that (did they read the tweet?) and he hadn't had the courtesy to reply .......
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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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idb
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #24 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 2:38am
 
John Lewis Partnership profits fall nearly 40%

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/sep/12/john-lewis-partnership-profits-f...

Perhaps a reason for the change.

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bigjohn
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #25 - Sep 15th, 2013 at 4:15am
 
I notice they still claim 0844 is local and 0870 national on their site.

"Technical support

If you have any queries or problems with an electrical or technology product, call our JL technical support line on 0844 693 1799 (call charges will depend on your telephone provider.  Please check with your operator for exact charges) or email technical support@johnlewis.com from 8am to 9pm weekdays, 8am to 8pm Saturday and 10am to 6pm Sundays – calls are charged at a local call rate. To help us handle your query promptly please have your model number available.

We offer access to a 90 day helpline when you buy a new desktop or laptop computer from John Lewis. The service is available for a period of 90 days from the date you make your purchase, and you can call the helpline on 0870 600 0060 from 8am to 9pm weekdays, 8am to 8pm Saturday and 10am to 8pm Sundays - calls are charged at a national call rate."


http://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/information-about-shopping-on-johnlew...
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2013 at 4:16am by bigjohn »  

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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #26 - Sep 20th, 2013 at 2:43pm
 
Further to my post of last week I'd like to share a portion of the response I had from their Customer Service person having asked why they choose to charge their customers for speaking with them.

"A range of options including 0330 and other alternative numbers were considered in full knowledge and understanding of the implications each of these would bring. In addition, consideration was given to the costs involved in providing telephone support to a large omnichannel retailer such as ourselves. As previously advised by Customer Relations, the decision was made knowing we also offer customers a number of ways to get in contact which carry no additional cost.

The decision to change our branch numbers is not one we made lightly knowing some customers such as yourself, may not agree with the approach. For this reason, we continue to monitor customer feedback on this change, including online consumer review websites such as Which. As part of this process, I would like to thank you for getting in contact and assure you that your concerns have been taken on board."


It seems we need to get the word out some more and they might just change. I am going to go back and ask them to be transparent on their website about what these calls cost and that they make money from them. I hope to report back on that too.
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #27 - Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:55am
 
I had cause to call John Lewis recently over a problem with a laptop purchased from them the day before.  I rang the 01698 number although I was in the UK,  having 'blocked' my outgoing number, and this was not questioned.  I explained the problem and was offered an exchange with no argument or quibbling.  Outstanding service as one expects, and this is why I have used John Lewis for many years.

The lady did mention that 'we offer free technical support for laptops for 90 days......" and I said : "It's not really free as it's an 0870 number which is expensive to call and for which John Lewis retains part of the revenue."  She said she would mention this at a higher level.

I am satisfied with the outcome of this incident but I can imagine that others may not be if given the same response.
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bigjohn
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #28 - Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:34am
 
Allenmac wrote on Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:55am:
and I said : "It's not really free as it's an 0870 number which is expensive to call and for which John Lewis retains part of the revenue."  She said she would mention this at a higher level.


Revenue sharing on 0870 numbers was abolished a long while ago.About August 2009 if i recall correctly.But if your calling from a mobile they are not normally inclusive. Where as a number of landline suppliers include them in their inclusive bundles.
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« Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:50am by bigjohn »  

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Ian G
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Re: John Lewis store numbers changed from geo to 0844
Reply #29 - Sep 22nd, 2013 at 12:02pm
 
Revenue sharing was removed from 0870 numbers in 2009, and that act has led to much confusion. Big changes are coming that will end the confusion.

Many companies currently use BT's low 0845 and 0870 rates as justification for retaining all types of 084 and 087 numbers (believing the 0845/0870 rates also apply to other 084/087 numbers and to other providers). Lack of a Service Charge on calls to 0870 numbers is not typical for 084/087 numbers (all other 084/087 numbers do have a Service Charge). Inclusiveness of 0870 numbers in call plan allowances is also not typical (mobiles don't include them). BT's call rates for 084/087 numbers are not typical in the market (BT's rates are capped by regulation). BT's ability to designate 0845 calls as inclusive, by subsidising the Service Charge, is especially untypical for 0845 numbers.

Under Ofcom's "simplifying non-geographic numbers" plans, a Service Charge high enough to generate a revenue share payment will once again be levied on 0870 calls, and a Service Charge barely enough to generate a revenue share payment will continue to be levied on 0845 calls. Users of 084/087/09 numbers will have to declare the Service Charge that applies to their number. Connection fees on calls to 084/087/09 numbers will be scrapped. Phone networks will each set a single Access Charge per tariff covering all 084, 087 and 09 calls. The "NTS Condition" that currently caps BT's 084/087/09 call prices will also be removed.

These measures will end the anomalies with pricing on 0870 calls made from all types of landline and with pricing on 084/087/09 calls made from BT landlines, and end the ability of BT and others to make calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers fully inclusive.

It will reinforce the rule that the 03 range is the ONLY one that has the same pricing as 01 and 02 numbers from all landlines and all mobiles.

It will dispel the myth that 0845 and 0870 numbers are cheap to call, or are in some way tied to "local" or "national" rates - something that hasn't been true since 2004.

Before that happens, the Consumer Rights Directive will force many companies to replace their 084 and 087 numbers with numbers beginning 01, 02, 03 or 080.
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« Last Edit: Sep 22nd, 2013 at 7:32pm by Ian G »  
 
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