I have not posted for some time so maybe this topic has recently been discussed. Some time ago I was surprised to discover that John Lewis has started using 0844 numbers.  I have been writing to them for some time, but only received a number of slick and evasive replies.  I  am due a reply to my recent series of emails to the company, but notice in the newspapers today that they now intend to use only geographical numbers.  Does anybody have any further information regarding the John Lewis statement.

So John Lewis have finally been embarrassed in to a retreat on 0844 numbers.  I didn't participate as I wasn't trying to shop there at the time and I am all worn out with the pick them off one by one approach to dealing with the 084/7 number problem.  A regulatory ban accompanied by large fines for breaches is the only real world solution.

However it says almost everything there is to say about the current John Lewis CEO (as seen extensively on the tv series Inside John Lewis) that he and his Board allowed this appalling decision to go through in the first place.  He has already allowed almost everything else that John Lewis once held dear, such as their historic store Caleys in Windsor, to be trashed in favour of short term profit.  So why not copy Tesco and DSG Retail on the phone numbers front too he appears to have thought.

John Lewis is certainly not what it once was as other bad decisions such as a "restocking fee" on returns of electronic goods (that is if you are unwise enough to say that you simply didn't want the item rather than claiming it is faulty in some manner in which case no restocking fee is charged) all tend to show.

As to Ominichannel its just power crazed psychobabble to justify unethical decisions by obedient and unquestioning footsoldiers of large faceless modern businesses.

It could be that the absence of a plan for each area of the business to implement a Partnership-wide executive decision
explains the lack of a formal statement.

My personal view is that it is remarkable that a business which operates on the co-operative principle has survived at all into the 21st century, as we see another (The Co-operative Banking Group) have to abandon its principles in order to survive. If standards are being allowed to suffer, that is deeply regrettable. I am also disappointed that the Partnership did not take advantage of the suggested opportunity to set an example to all of its competitors by a clear announcement of a decision to abandon all 084 numbers, ahead of the announcement of the regulations requiring this change.

NGMsGhost wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2013 at 11:51am:

I agree. There can however be merit in choosing one suitable case to act as an example, given that it is likely to secure sufficient publicity to put pressure on others.

Sadly, campaigning resources are not sufficient to handle too many specific cases anyway, even though ultimately it is lots of individual decisions (if only the decision to comply with regulations, rather than risking a penalty) that makes the difference.

Barbara wrote on Jan 31^st, 2014 at 9:43am:

I note from earlier references in this thread that some individuals and groups are directly engaged with the Partnership over this issue. I would expect them to be able to respond to this comment.

NGMsGhost wrote on Feb 11^th, 2014 at 9:28pm:

It may well be that Andy Street would be able to expedite the necessary action or, as requested, advise when it will be taken. The fair telecoms campaign has long been pressing the Partnership to make a clear public statement about exactly what is going to be done and when. The June deadline is now approaching, so any opportunity to be seen to be proactive has now probably passed anyway.

Sadly, I have nothing to add, as private contacts cannot necessarily provide a basis for public statements, which have to come in their own time. The proper basis for the regulations has been secured, even though some may object to the techniques used to achieve this, most of which was in public. It will be disappointing if the John Lewis Partnership does nothing more than join with others in complying, however that may still be classed as a victory for the efforts of all campaigners.

As John Lewis's CEO, Mr Andy Street (as constantly seen on the BBC tv series Inside John Lewis), is most closely personally identified with the unwelcome move to 084, as well as other unwelcome changes to customers like the replacement of direct in store customer telephone contact with staff with two faceless regional call centres and the closure of the company's historic Caleys store in Windsor (which was later spectacularly vandalised by complete destruction of the historic internal fabric by TK Maxx) it may perhaps pay dividends for unhappy John Lewis customers to email the group's Chairman, Charlie Mayfield.

His email address can be found at http://ceoemail.com/s.php?id=76391

bbb_uk wrote on Feb 12^th, 2014 at 8:16pm:


bbb_uk,

Its good to hear from you again.  I had thought that this forum and website was now run single handedly by Dave and that you and DaveM had long since disappeared in to the sunset of saynoto0870.com history.

Regarding telecoms companies their naked and disgusting greed seems to no almost no bounds if they think they can get away with it and no one is looking.

Only last week BT Payphone were exposed for their shameful and unbelievable behaviour in having raised the minimum call charge to use one of their kiosks with a credit or debit card from an already 100% inflated (over cash which has a 60p minimum fee) £1.20 charge to an incredible £6.50 per call.  The embarrassment caused to BT by the You & Yours probe was such that they announced they would be reversing the charge to £1.20 and refunding all the card holders who were charged £6.50  This was after BT were also leaned on by none other than normally dozy Ofcom following the You&Yours probe in to the matter.

I am fighting a similar battle on naked telecoms day light robbery with Orange Spain who I have a SIM card with on their SIM Mundo tariff.  This offers calls to UK geographic numbers at 1 Euro cent per minute plus a one off 30 cent connection charge.  Last October I called Plusnet's 03 number using this service with a 5 Euro credit balance on the phone (luckily it wasn't say 20 Euros) only to find my credit balance wiped out amd the call disconnected in 20 seconds.  This was because Orange Spain had wrongly classified UK 03 numbers as being Premium Rate (as in 09 sex chat lines type Premium) despite the longstanding existence of Ofcom GC17.  This Premium rate charge was 15.4 EUR a minute last October but has now gone up to an even more outrageous 19.2 EUR per minute.  Yet they only charge 0.23 EUR per minute to UK PNS 070 numbers showing how ludicrous are their charge to 03 numbers.  They also fail to define on their website what they class as Premium Rate and do not publish any comprehensive tariff and code lists.  See http://movil.orange.es/tarifas/llamar-a-otro-pais/tarjeta-sim-mundo/

Only today a senior marketing lady at Orange Spain called me back to continue to insist that they had to charge 19.2 EUR a minute as these were the costs they were suppsedly incurring in connecting calls to UK 03 numbers.  If that is true then Ofcom is going to come in for some very severe embarrassment when the UK Customer Service Directive comes in to effect and most 084 users (calls to whom Orange Spain only charges at 0.13 EUR per minute change to using 03s!!

I have emailed all the way to CEO level at Orange, Spain and copied in the generally completely recumbent and supine Messrs Steve Unger and Claudio Pollack at Ofcom (their supposed telecom and consumer matters experts), who have been drawing their large salaries and pension rights for a very long time now, and so far got precisely nowhere.  Some Limousine riding bunch of bandits in the middle or Orange Spain itself are still to this day creaming off nearly all of the 19.2 EUR per minute.

So yes I fully expect all the more immorally run call centres in the UK (eg those run by Sky in particular) not to give up using 03 numbers and to fight to continue using Service Charge based NGNs till the very last.  The telecoms industry seems to attract the very worst kind of commercial practice mainly because people frequent incur a liability to pay outrageous charges without knowing in advance what those charges will be.  My 15.4 EUR a minute experience with Orange, Spain is a case in point.

It's easy enough to find the "enhanced termination rate", or "service charge" as it will become known, for their particular 0844 numbers. It's around 7p/min including VAT.

By June 2015, all users of 084, 087 and 09 numbers will be required to declare this charge, making it clear they are financially benefitting from the call. However, traders must start using 03 or other "basic rate" numbers for their customer service lines by 13 June 2014.