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BT reducing line rental (Read 22,943 times)
Dave
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #30 - Oct 30th, 2017 at 4:18pm
 
My take on giving examples of thresholds of usage would be to take the 8.99, multiply by 12, divide by 365 and multiply by 7. This takes account of differing numbers of weekdays in each month. Rounding the result of the calculation to the next whole penny gives a spend of 2.07 per week.

Remember that the Unlimited Anytime Calls at 8.99 is for inclusive calls Monday to Friday (at any time of day or night). As calls are included at weekends by default, then they should not be included in any example.

2.07 divided three ways is 69p, which happens to be exactly the cost of a call in duration of anything greater 3 minutes and up to 4 minutes exactly.
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2017 at 4:19pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #31 - Oct 30th, 2017 at 4:22pm
 
Dave wrote on Oct 30th, 2017 at 3:59pm:
This is incorrect.

Thank you Dave; I was incorrect.

Penalty Charge call durations, unlike those for calls to 084/087/09/118 numbers, are indeed rounded up to the next minute.

Apologies for the factual error, although my point stands - it is actually strengthened a little. Any call of over 6 minutes dead costs more than 1. To avoid spending more than 1 you have to hang up on or before 6 minutes.


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Dave
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #32 - Oct 30th, 2017 at 4:54pm
 
With respect to example durations that have to be met exactly or more commonly exceeded to make the inclusive package worthwhile, we can now make a list of possibilities to choose from. Assuming that for simplicity's sake we wish to stick to giving the quantity of same-duration calls rather than mixtures of different lengths, then there are only a small number of possibilities:

More than 6 calls (7 or more calls) lasting anything up to 1 minute exactly (break-even is at 6.27 calls).
More than 4 calls (5 or more calls) lasting from 1 minute and a part-fraction of a minute to 2 minutes exactly (break-even is at 4.6 calls).
More than 3 calls (4 or more calls) lasting from 2 minutes and a part-fraction of a minute to 3 minutes exactly (break-even is at 3.63 calls).
More than 3 calls (3 or more calls) lasting from 3 minutes and a part-fraction of a minute to 4 minutes exactly (break-even is at 3.00 calls).
More than 2 calls (3 or more calls) lasting from 4 minutes and a part-fraction of a minute to 5 minutes exactly (break-even is at 2.56 calls).
More than 2 calls (3 or more calls) lasting from 5 minutes and a part-fraction of a minute to 6 minutes exactly (break-even is at 2.23 calls).
More than 1 call (2 or more calls) lasting from 6 minutes and a part-fraction of a minute to 7 minutes exactly (break-even is at 1.97 calls).
More than 1 call (2 or more calls) lasting from 7 minutes and a part-fraction of a minute to 8 minutes exactly (break-even is at 1.77 calls).

Continuing with durations 9 minutes and upwards, the inclusive package is worthwhile where more than 1 call of duration up to and including 15 minutes exactly is made.

The cost of a single 16-minute call (durations greater than 15 minutes up to 16 minutes exactly) is 2.13 and thus the inclusive package is worthwhile even for one such call per week.

There is the question as to whether to present quantities as "more than x calls" or "x+1 or more calls". I probably favour the former.

Over the years the cost of the anytime inclusive package has risen, along with penalty charges for non-inclusive calls. If someone has a note of these then it would be possible to plot how the break-even point has changed over time.
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2017 at 5:31pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #33 - Oct 31st, 2017 at 7:33am
 
Unlimited call packagea are close to being the new normal on landlines. They are also commonplace on mobile deals where the main distinguishing feature is amount of data allowance, alongside large or unlimited phone & text allowances. Presumably reflecting how a lot of people use their mobiles mainly for data.

If I look back to what I was paying for landline telephony in the 1990s and early 2000s it's a lot less now than then. Unlimited call deals certainly gave me a large reduction in bills.
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #34 - Oct 31st, 2017 at 1:09pm
 
Unlimited call deals are great for the callers that use them I just wanted to point out that there are millions of landline low users that are duped into paying this excessive fee when they do not use it.
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« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2017 at 1:10pm by bazzerfewi »  
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #35 - Oct 31st, 2017 at 2:35pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 1:09pm:
Unlimited call deals are great for the callers that use them I just wanted to point out that there are millions of landline low users that are duped into paying this excessive fee when they do not use it.

Such low users which includes those who tend to make calls from their mobiles when at home would be better off with providers that have low call charges. Such operators may not offer inclusive plans, and instead utilise the model of billing calls on incidental basis. That way, should a subscriber make a call it won't cost as much.
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #36 - Oct 31st, 2017 at 2:42pm
 
allegro wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 7:33am:
Unlimited call packagea
s
are close to being the new normal on landlines.

We believe that this we arrived at this point some time ago.



bazzerfewi wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 1:09pm:
there are millions of landline low users that are duped into paying this excessive fee when they do not use it.

There are many BT broadband users who have no handset connected, but pay for unlimited weekend calls.

Aside from them, we feel that the number of BT customers who are duped into paying excessive Penalty Charges is much greater than those who are duped in the opposite direction.
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #37 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 3:45pm
 
Dave wrote on Oct 27th, 2017 at 12:14pm:
Those on Home Phone Saver packages where the price is guaranteed come April will be on Home Phone Saver 2019 and Home Phone Saver 2020, both at 21.99. The cost of Line Rental plus Unlimited Anytime Calls will be 20.98, if the latter's price doesn't increase. However, what's to say that it will not go up 50p or maybe 1 by then? The cost could perhaps be 21.98, meaning that Home Phone Saver customers could opt-in to save one whole penny per whole month.

Well, stop the press! Unlimited Anytime Calls will be going up from 8.99 to 9.50 on 7 January 2018.
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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2017 at 5:54pm by Dave »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #38 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 5:49pm
 
Dave wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Such low users which includes those who tend to make calls from their mobiles when at home would be better off with providers that have low call charges. Such operators may not offer inclusive plans, and instead utilise the model of billing calls on incidental basis. That way, should a subscriber make a call it won't cost as much.

This quote is fine for those of us who understand the telco programmes but there are millions of users (older users mainly) that are duped into taking on unlimited call deals by telco aggressive sales staff - just wondering if there is any way we could educate them in the same way that we educated and assisted users of 0845 and 0870 users. Prior to learning about this site way back in 2005 I was totally unaware of the premium rate 0870 call charges

Edit: Quote at top amended - Dave
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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2017 at 5:53pm by Dave »  
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #39 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 6:04pm
 

I find that landline phone providers usually seem to under-sell their anytime inclusive call plans. They advertise inclusive weekend calls as the default package. This exposes callers to rates of around 8 per hour for weekday calls and it is this that fuels the perception that "landlines are expensive".

I suspect there are a significant number of people paying a large amount for weekday calls at high per-minute rates on their landline who could benefit from swapping to an unlimited anytime call plan on their landline.

I would also contend there are many people who could save money by taking an unlimited anytime deal on their landline and cutting the deal on their mobile phone down so that it covers only the calls they will make while away from home.

Landline providers offer unlimited anytime calls for around :9 per month. Those deals include calls to UK geographic numbers starting 01 and 02, non-geographic numbers starting 03 and, usually, UK mobile numbers starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079.


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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2017 at 6:17pm by Ian01 »  
 
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Dave
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #40 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 6:15pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Nov 4th, 2017 at 5:49pm:
Dave wrote on Oct 31st, 2017 at 2:35pm:
Such low users which includes those who tend to make calls from their mobiles when at home would be better off with providers that have low call charges. Such operators may not offer inclusive plans, and instead utilise the model of billing calls on incidental basis. That way, should a subscriber make a call it won't cost as much.

This quote is fine for those of us who understand the telco programmes but there are millions of users (older users mainly) that are duped into taking on unlimited call deals by telco aggressive sales staff - just wondering if there is any way we could educate them in the same way that we educated and assisted users of 0845 and 0870 users. Prior to learning about this site way back in 2005 I was totally unaware of the premium rate 0870 call charges

I agree bazzerfewi. Such providers I alluded to are outliers in the market, and therefore only the most astute will find them.

If they were more mainstream then they might give the providers that used the inclusive model a run for their money.

But it would require understanding of the effects of call set-up fees and whole minute billing upon the cost of calls charged incidentally.
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #41 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 6:22pm
 
Ian01 wrote on Nov 4th, 2017 at 6:04pm:
I would also contend there are many people who could save money by taking an unlimited anytime deal on their landline and cutting the deal on their mobile phone down so that it covers only the calls they will make while away from home.

Landline providers offer unlimited anytime calls for around :9 per month. Those deals include calls to UK geographic numbers starting 01 and 02, non-geographic numbers starting 03 and, usually, UK mobile numbers starting 071 to 075 and 077 to 079.

Perhaps. But at the side of the monthly subscription for their mobile service, the handset offered may be an attractive carrot plus call bundles aren't that expensive plus people don't tend to make voice calls any more, preferring to communicate with friends via social media. So would it really make a difference? And then set it at the side of the fact that people prefer to make calls when they want and not tend to be restricted when at home.
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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2017 at 6:24pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #42 - Nov 4th, 2017 at 10:41pm
 
It is my belief that if more users of mobiles didn't believe they had to change their handset when their contract ended the revenue to mobile networks and hand set providers would be greatly reduced. I recently came across a group of people that all believed they had to dispose of their handset when the contract ended. I am pleased to say that now they have been re-educated they are all going to opt for a sim only package and purchase their next hand set outright, they are also going to contact a number of providers to get the best deal. IF ONLY MORE PEOPLE REALISED THIS THEY WOULD COLLECTIVELY SAVE MILLIONS.
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« Last Edit: Nov 4th, 2017 at 10:43pm by bazzerfewi »  
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #43 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 3:53am
 
When the landline-only BT line rental reduction comes into effect in April 2018, the rate will be set at 11.99 per month with increases limited to inflation. Using a working estimate of 2.5%, we may expect 12.30 in April 2019 and 12.60 in April 2020. (BT price increases are generally well ahead of inflation, but this is capped for three years.)

Those affected will have to choose between paying for just that and the option of paying for Home Phone Saver 2020. (I am assuming, for now, that there will be no Home Phone Saver 2021.)

Home Phone Saver 2020 costs 21.99 per month, but offers the following array of additional benefits with its price guaranteed as fixed until 1 January 2020, with the possibility of it extending beyond that date (as other similar offers have).

All of the following, in addition to line rental are included in Home Phone Saver 2020. Prices are shown as at 7 Jan 2018, or as projected if the new price is not yet known (*). These prices may be expected to increase further before January 2020.
  • Unlimited calls, at any time, to UK landlines and 0845 and 0870 numbers, for up to an hour (9.50 per month).
    Projected cost at January 2019: 9.75 per month (although the inflation cap does not apply to this).
  • BT Privacy with Caller Display (1.85 per month, although inclusive on some deals).
  • Anonymous Call Reject (6.50 per month *).
  • Free 1471 / 1571 Call Return (30p per use).
  • 1000 free minutes to BT Mobiles, excluding BT Business Mobile (not available as an item).
  • Call Minder with Enhanced BT Call Protect (5.00 per month).
  • Any or all of the following calling features - Call Waiting, Call Diversion, Call Sign, Call Barring, Three-way Calling, Ring Back, Reminder Call (1 feature: 5.00, 2-4 features: 9.25, 5+ features: 12.25, all per month).

If we consider Unlimited Anytime Calls to be the only worthwhile benefit, Home Phone Saver 2020 is 50p more expensive in April 2018, but 6p cheaper than the projected charge in April 2019.

All those features listed (with per month rates) total 35.10, giving a potential clear saving of up to 25.10 per month in April 2018, by subscribing to Home Phone Saver 2020, rather each of the features separately. There are also the additional benefits of inclusive calls to BT Mobiles and unlimited use of Call Return.

I think it fair to say that use of any one of the many features listed would tip the balance in favour of Home Phone Saver 2020, after the threshold of call usage to justify Unlimited Anytime had been crossed.


There then opens up the complex matrix of combinations of valued features and call usage to justify subscription to Home Phone Saver, in the event of very low call usage.

Noting recent contributions to this thread, I think we can say that those who get very little benefit from very little use of their landline should simply rip it out and get a mobile! We can then stop wasting our time talking about them in this thread and perhaps open another to discuss mobiles.

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bazzerfewi
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Re: BT reducing line rental
Reply #44 - Nov 5th, 2017 at 8:29am
 
Thanks SilentCallVictim, that is an excellent explanation, I appreciate your comments and I have followed your suggestion and discarded my landline but I am not having much success convincing some of my older friends and colleagues to do the same. as for starting a thread in regard to the benefit of using mobiles over landlines I am all for that. If we had the same success in convincing people to use mobiles in this scenario as we did the 0870/0845 number it would be fantastic.
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