SAYNOTO0870.COM - NHS premium & national rate phone lines ban

lompos

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #120 - Mar 23^rd, 2005 at 11:40am

Quote:

In an earlier OFTEL run consultation on NTS 0845/0870 numbers Leicester City Council Trading Standards made a submission that stated "...we reached the conclusion that any price indication given to consumers, which suggested that an 0845 call would be priced in line with a local call or that an 0870 call would be priced in line with a national call, was misleading within the meaning of Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987. Any person giving such price indications, or giving advice that such price indications may be used, is in our view guilty of a criminal offence under that legislation"

A rather milder approach from Islington Trading Standards in March 2005:

Thank you for bringing to our attention the concerns you have over the cost of a call to the St Paul's Medical Centre.

I have spoken to the surgery about the poster that indicated calls were charged at the national rate and followed this with a letter of advice which was posted on Thursday. My advice reflects that of the Central Office of Information, namely that call charges should be made clear to avoid misleading the public.

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lompos

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #121 - Mar 23^rd, 2005 at 12:06pm

The other side of the coin.

Quote from a letter to Islington Primary Care Trust:

I would advise you to read the briefing put out by your own organisation about health inequalities in Islington:

Many Islington residents remain cut off from the greater wealth and opportunities that other local people take for granted. Simply put, the poorer someone is, the greater the chance that they will not access health and social care services…

Do you think that using premium rate telephone numbers in primary care is conducive to reducing or eliminating health inequalities in Islington?

If you have any influence at all I would suggest that you use it to try to persuade the St Paul’s Road Medical Centre to revert to their former geographic phone number. This would be one way in which you could promote and represent the interests of the many thousand Islington residents who are registered with this practice.

This was in reply to an email in which they said:

"I am confirming that the PCT is supporting St Paul's Road Medical Centre to change from an 0870 number to an 0844 number in the next few weeks. This is in line with recent NHS guidance"

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bill

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #122 - Mar 23^rd, 2005 at 12:24pm

Quote:

This was in reply to an email in which they said:

"I am confirming that the PCT is supporting St Paul's Road Medical Centre to change from an 0870 number to an 0844 number in the next few weeks. This is in line with recent NHS guidance"

I don't see how that reply is 'the other side of the coin'. It just shows how they, like government ministers, have been duped by NEG with their 'local rate' garbage about the cost of 0844 calls.

It is extensively recorded in this thread how much MORE than an 0870 call a call to an 0844 number from a phone box will cost (i.e. for those poor people you mentioned who have to use a phone box).

In any case, the 0844 numbers NEG will be supplying will (at all times) cost 5p per minute to call from a residential landline - 66% more than a call to an 01 or 02 number, even for those still using BT.

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quiller Newbie Offline Posts: 2	Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba Reply #123 - Mar 24^th, 2005 at 10:48am Where do mobile telephone numbers fit into this ban from the department of health? Does it also mean that GPs and Dentists cannot use a mobile number as a contact for their patients? Thanks
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lompos

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #124 - Mar 24^th, 2005 at 12:16pm

The Department of Health guidance is silent about mobile numbers, I suppose it is assumed that GPs and dentists are essentially non-mobile when on duty and working. They would probably be reluctant to give out their mobile numbers to patients anyway for obvious reasons. There could however be exceptional circumstances, e.g. when a rural GP travels extensively, or for emergencies, or for calling from abroad, and I see no harm if they gave out their mobile numbers but only as an alternative.

Also, ordinary mobile numbers don't generate revenue for the called party (the principal objection to premium rate numbers) but if there are equivalents to 0870 etc. in the mobile world one should of course condemn the use of these by GPs and dentists.

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Dave

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #125 - Mar 24^th, 2005 at 2:06pm

Quote:

... There could however be exceptional circumstances, e.g. when a rural GP travels extensively, or for emergencies, or for calling from abroad, and I see no harm if they gave out their mobile numbers but only as an alternative.

But mobile phones can be in areas without coverage, especially in some rural areas. Their batteries can also go flat.

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quiller Newbie Offline Posts: 2	Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba Reply #126 - Mar 24^th, 2005 at 4:35pm What if they use a mobile for the patients to ring to be seen in Out of Hours. It is not a personal mobile but one used for a particular service (e.g OOH) so that staff can answer when they are not sat at a desk all the time.
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mikeinnc

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #127 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 4:08pm

I have also posted this reply in another post on this site about the election, but I thought it should also be posted here, as this is the thread that initiated it. Notice that there are no promises - just vague possibilities and consultations for the future - and well after the election, of course!

Quote:

Our ref: DE6010185

Dear Mr xxxxxx,

Thank you for your further email of 8 March to the Department of Health about the charges for telephone systems for NHS GP services.

In your letter, you raise several points about 0844 numbers. The Government shares your concerns about the cost of these numbers. The Office of communications (OFCOM) is currently reviewing the use of these numbers as part of a consultation on the future of all number translation services. The result of the consultation will be published in the summer and we will be considering what further action to take on the use of 0844 numbers in the light of this.

Yours sincerely,

William Frost
Customer Service Centre
Department of Health

I guess we should at least be grateful that they are beginning to realise the extent of anger in the community about this scam. Wink

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BexTech

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #128 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 4:20pm

Two replies I received today:

Quote:

Dear Mr. xxxx,

Thank you for your email to the Department of Health.

We are committed to ensuring that patients do not have to pay over the odds to access local services and that is why on the 24 February it was announced that we are banning NHS organisations providing local services from adopting national and premium rate numbers.

The ban will come into force later this month.

In the interests of clarity the numbers which will be banned are:

·    0870 numbers which are charged at standard national rate;
·    0871 numbers which are charged at up to 10p a minute; and
·    09x numbers which are premium rate numbers.

We share your concerns about the cost of 0844 numbers. The Office of Communications (OFCOM) is currently reviewing the use of these numbers as part of a consultation on the future of all number translation services.

The result of the consultation will be published in the summer and we will be considering what further action to take on the use of 0844 numbers in the light of this.

I hope this reply is reassuring.

Yours sincerely,

Gerry Howell
Customer Service Centre
Department of Health

Quote:

Dear Mr xxxx,

Thank you for your email of 4 March to the Department of Health about the charges for telephone systems for NHS GP services.

In your letter, you raise several points about 0844 numbers. The Government shares your concerns about the cost of these numbers. The Office of communications (OFCOM) is currently reviewing the use of these numbers as part of a consultation on the future of all number translation services. The result of the consultation will be published in the summer and we will be considering what further action to take on the use of 0844 numbers in the light of this.

Yours sincerely,

William Frost
Customer Service Centre
Department of Health

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #129 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 4:23pm

Quote:

I guess we should at least be grateful that they are beginning to realise the extent of anger in the community about this scam. Wink

If Ofcom pick the brave solution of abolishing all 084x and 087x revenue sharing and returning these numbers to geographic call rates (Ofcom Option 4) then everything else takes care of itself.

If Ofcom do not do this then organisations having to move everything off their 084x and 087x call centres is going to be a lot more messy for everybody.

Sure a few 084x and 087x telecoms service providers like NEG are going to go bust if Ofcom make this major change but people are going to cry about that as much as they would about a heroin dealer going out of business.

If the Conservatives win the election we had better concentrate on bringing people on that side of world up to speed that 084x/087x does not represent free market competition but merely an anticompetitive form of monpoly exploitation.

After all exactly what added value service are the Police providing if I now have to call then on an 0845 number about my dog having got lost.

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juby Full Member Offline Posts: 203 Gloucestershire Gender:	Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba Reply #130 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 5:12pm Quote: Two replies I received today: "0870 numbers are charged at the standard national rate." Try reporting them to the TSO for that statement. juby
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kk Senior Member Offline Posts: 354 Gender:	Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba Reply #131 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 5:27pm I agree, a complaint should be made to the TSO. Inform the writer of the letter that you intend to report this flagrant misleading statement to the TSO; ask them to comment.
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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #132 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 5:58pm

Quote:

I agree, a complaint should be made to the TSO. Inform the writer of the letter that you intend to report this flagrant misleading statement to the TSO; ask them to comment.

Point out to your local Trading Standards Office the previous comments of Leicester Trading Standards on the matter in their submission to Ofcom.

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juby

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #133 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 8:30pm

Yes, but even though they have a "Customer Help Line" they are not under the auspices of the TSO because they are not "trading".

They are an organisation set up purely to help the general public.

How dare you suggest otherwise??

(How can they have customers if they are not trading, and how can they trade if they do not have suppliers)

juby

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NonGeographicalMan

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Re: NHS premium & national rate phone lines ba
Reply #134 - Apr 6^th, 2005 at 9:02pm

Quote:

Yes, but even though they have a "Customer Help Line" they are not under the auspices of the TSO because they are not "trading".

They are an organisation set up purely to help the general public.

How dare you suggest otherwise??

(How can they have customers if they are not trading, and how can they trade if they do not have suppliers)

Juby,

So am I correct in now realising that TSO is short hand for Trading Standards Ombudsman? I didn't know there was even a Trading Standards Ombudsman! I thought you mean Trading Standards Office or Officer when you said TSO

These Ombudsman guys are really two a penny aren't they and almost as useless. From what I have seen most of them want to get involved as little as possible while still being allowed to pick up their nice fat salary cheques?

Leicester City Council Trading Standards were the guys who came to the opinions that anyone claiming 0845 and 0870 were local and national rate was commiting an offence under one of the various consumer protection acts. And that was before BT made their local and national geographic rate the same on July 1st 2004. So Leicester Trading Standards are actually the good guys here.

Are you feeling alright Juby. I do hope you did not by any chance miss your train or something this evening? Grin

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