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NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investigation (Read 510,395 times)
pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #345 - Jul 19th, 2006 at 3:19pm
 
Quote:
I stupidly assumed that the £3.50 a day charge included the likes of staple low budget Sky pay channels like British Eurosport, UK Gold, National Geographic, Discovery, UK Documentary etc, etc but now we learn it is only the free multichannel tv channels just so Patientline can rack up their profits yet further by not providing any actual pay channels at a service cost of over £1,000 per year per patient.


The channels are not free to commercial users such as Patientline.
Profits? What profits?
How was £1,000 arrived at? It is actually less than £630 per terminal.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #346 - Jul 19th, 2006 at 9:35pm
 
Since you are such an expert pw4 with your ear so close to the ground on these matters perhaps you would care to summarise the conclusions of the salient parts of this report to which you have already provided references?
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Heinz
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #347 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 11:27am
 
I liked the below recommendation (but am not holding my breath for anything to actually be done).

Quote:
We recommend that urgent consideration be given to short term measures that could be taken to reduce the costs, such as shortening the recorded message and making it avoidable. In the longer term, we recommend that hospitals should make greater use of the bedside units as soon as possible, since this would
reduce the costs of incoming calls. It is an utter waste for these units, which could contribute significantly to the transfer of information within hospitals, to be used as little more than glorified telephones and televisions. If the NHS cannot make use of the additional services in the near future, the Department should pay the difference in cost between the standard rate and the amount charged by the companies. Patients’ relatives
and friends should not be penalised for the Department’s failings.


We can all just see the government refunding 46p per minute (the current difference between a 3p/minute call on BT to a 'standard rate' [01/02] number and the 49p/minute Patientline charge) for the one hour call I make to my granny in hospital, can't we?
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2006 at 11:32am by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #348 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 2:50pm
 
Quote:
Since you are such an expert pw4 with your ear so close to the ground on these matters perhaps you would care to summarise the conclusions of the salient parts of this report to which you have already provided references?

Conclusion: cost of incoming calls unacceptable, but providers not wholly responsible for problem.
Recommendations:
16 short term - shorten recorded 'wealth warning' etc message at beginning of inbound calls and make it avoidable.
16 longer term - hospitals use additional services - menu ordering, access to patient records, etc - failing which DH pay difference between amount charged for phone calls and standard rate.
17 - allow use of mobiles in certain areas of hospitals.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #349 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:03pm
 
pw4 wrote on Jul 20th, 2006 at 2:50pm:
16 longer term - hospitals use additional services - menu ordering, access to patient records, etc - failing which DH pay difference between amount charged for phone calls and standard rate.
17 - allow use of mobiles in certain areas of hospitals.


Thank you for this helpful assessment pw4.

However I still don't see why patients relatives should be expected to pay a premium rate for making phone calls to them even if the NHS were still  to make use of the menu ordering and patient record access facilities of the Patientline system?  I also cannot see the connection between the NHS not making use of these facilities (in itself a scandal) and the NHS allowing patients relatives to be ripped off for calling them when they have banned mobile phone use as an alternative/form of competition (a separate scandal)?
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:04pm by Dave »  
 
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pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #350 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:11pm
 
Heinz wrote on Jul 20th, 2006 at 11:27am:
I liked the below recommendation (but am not holding my breath for anything to actually be done).
snip quote
We can all just see the government refunding 46p per minute (the current difference between a 3p/minute call on BT to a 'standard rate' [01/02] number and the 49p/minute Patientline charge) for the one hour call I make to my granny in hospital, can't we?


I concur. It was a fundamental principle of the Patient Power Project that TV and phone services are provided free of cost to the NHS (if you overlook the considerable adminstrative and legal costs of the project and contracts, and the cost of electricity).
I can't see the DH paying for phone calls or television, and it's difficult to see any other way that charges will be reduced. Perhaps this is why there is no sign of the first report by the DH Review Group that is due by the end of June.
How is she, by the way?
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #351 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:23pm
 
pw4 wrote on Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:11pm:
How is she, by the way?


How is who exactly?
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:23pm by N/A »  
 
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pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #352 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:28pm
 
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How is who exactly?

Heinz's granny.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #353 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 4:15pm
 
pw4 wrote on Jul 20th, 2006 at 3:28pm:
Heinz's granny.


I think you will find this is a hypothetcal Granny given that Heinz is the man who tells us he never ever calls an 0870 number!

So given his aversion to 7.5p per minute numbers I can't see him starting to call 47p per minute ones any time soon?  Especially not for an hour at a time Roll Eyes

If he really had to call her on one of these numbers at all I think it would be more a case of "High Granny.  Its me Heinz again.  You still alive this week and was the food good?  Yes on both - great.  Well must go.  Speak to you next week"...............
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2006 at 4:17pm by N/A »  
 
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pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #354 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 4:30pm
 
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I think you will find this is a hypothetcal Granny given that Heinz is the man who tells us he never ever calls an 0870 number!
She's hypothetical? No wonder they're keeping her in so long. Got to get her thetica under control before they can discharge her. When I saw her during my last ward visit she was doing fine - apart from getting bleedin' hour-long phone calls.
I had a proverbial granny - "stitch in time saves nine", "sticks and stones...", "look after the pennies and the pounds will look after the 2 minute 33.8 second phone calls".
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pw4
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #355 - Jul 20th, 2006 at 7:32pm
 
Quote:
I still don't see why patients relatives should be expected to pay a premium rate for making phone calls to them even if the NHS were still  to make use of the menu ordering and patient record access facilities of the Patientline system?
Sorry, don't follow, perhaps there's a "not" missing?


Quote:
I also cannot see the connection between the NHS not making use of these facilities (in itself a scandal) and the NHS allowing patients relatives to be ripped off for calling them when they have banned mobile phone use as an alternative/form of competition (a separate scandal)?

Hospitals say they are hesitant about using extra services on systems run by companies that might succumb to financial difficulties.
The companies claim that their financial difficulties are due to an extent to hospitals not using extra services.

There are reasons for banning mobile phones that are not related to Patient Power concession agreements. Whether these reasons outweigh the disadvantages to patients and relatives is open to question. The Select Committee says that mobile phones would inconvenience no-one if used sensibly and sensitively. This suggests that the committee members are not in the habit of visiting hospital wards. Perhaps only sensible and sensitive patients could be admitted (that would cut down on the cost of the NHS!) as sensible and sensitive use of mobiles does not seem to be a widely understood concept. Their recommendation that the use of mobiles should be allowed 'in certain areas' infers that these would not include wards, so patients confined to wards by their conditions would not benefit.

The connection is therefore purely economic. If the revenue does not exceed the costs, and the DH or NHS will not subsidise them, the companies will cease trading leaving no phone, TV or radio facilities in the wards. This would be a worse situation than pertained before the systems were introduced - though in some cases not much worse. If Patientline is to continue to operate its systems either its costs must be reduced or the revenue increased - perhaps by income from hospitals for the use of the extra services. Patientline would say that if costs could be reduced further they already would have been. Indeed, my impression is that its on-site staffing levels have already been reduced too much and the service to users has been compromised to an extent that could seriously impact revenues. But the wages bill is probably the only cost that the company has much control over.
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« Last Edit: Jul 20th, 2006 at 7:39pm by pw4 »  
 
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Heinz
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #356 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:02pm
 
Had no option but to call one of Patientline's 0700 numbers today (no, it wasn't to my Granny).  None of the 'alternate' providers would accept the call and I'm 150 miles from the hospital in question so I finished up having to make the call on BT.

56 seconds of "Hello, this is the Patentline system installed at ....Hospital" followed by 5 rings tones followed by, "You have reached the Patientline telephone allocated personally to .......  If this is not the person to whom you wish to speak, please phone the Patientline helpline on 0870 ....."

49p down the drain before I could even speak!

Stealth Taxes, Rip-off (new) Labour.

I have my response to the next politician who knocks on my door after having ignored me for 5 years.  It'll be the truncated, Anglo-Saxon version of "Go Forth And Multiply" - just as it was the last time and the time before that.
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« Last Edit: Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:07pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #357 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:15pm
 
Heinz wrote on Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:02pm:
I have my response to the next politician who knocks on my door after having ignored me for 5 years.  It'll be the truncated, Anglo-Saxon version of "Go Forth And Multiply" - just as it was the last time and the time before that.


As a now ex politician I would honestly suggest that being physically rude and obnoctious to a politician who calls is not the answer however good it may make you feel because unlike a call centre worker a politician (especially one in office) potentially has the power to try and change things unlike a call centre worker who is literally a modern galley slave who will get the lash if he does not do as he is told (just look at that poor postman who public spiritedly tried to tell his customers of their right to opt out of the Royal Mail's door to door scheme)

As we have seen from questions in Parliament and the Parliamentary EDM that many MPs have signed a lot of backbench MPs are aware of and trying to do something about the 084/7 scam.  Unfortunately the reason 084/7 is so entrenched and hard to shift and operates through lies, deceit and smoke and mirrors is because it is a New Labour scam deliberately introduced by New Labour's closest business cronies as a form of stealth tax and then rolled out into the public sector like the DVLA where it most definitely is a stealth tax.

I would say keep trying to take this up with politicians and especially your MEP which BobbyBoy has so usefully pointed out elsewhere may actually be able to do something about it on the grounds that it is a simple confidence trick involving people not being told the correct price of a good or service before they buy it.  This directly contravenes European competitition act legislation.
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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #358 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:18pm
 
Heinz wrote on Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:02pm:
Had no option but to call one of Patientline's 0700 numbers today (no, it wasn't to my Granny).  None of the 'alternate' providers would accept the call and I'm 150 miles from the hospital in question so I finished up having to make the call on BT.


According to 1899.com you can call any 070 number for 15p per minute.

Or will they not accept calls to these 070 numbers? Undecided Shocked
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Heinz
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Re: NHS Patientline 49p per minute Ofcom Investiga
Reply #359 - Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:43pm
 
Quote:
Heinz wrote on Sep 13th, 2006 at 4:02pm:
Had no option but to call one of Patientline's 0700 numbers today (no, it wasn't to my Granny).  None of the 'alternate' providers would accept the call and I'm 150 miles from the hospital in question so I finished up having to make the call on BT.


According to 1899.com you can call any 070 number for 15p per minute.

Or will they not accept calls to these 070 numbers? Undecided Shocked

Second one I tried - "The number you are calling is not a normal ..........." or something like that.
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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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