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OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION (Read 276,192 times)
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OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Sep 28th, 2005 at 10:50pm
 
Ofcom this morning published the 'NTS consultation'. †Full details can be found on their website using the links below.

This basically consists of two consultations - The full consultation documents can be downloaded using the links at the bottom of this message. †These are available in Adobe Acrobat (.PDF) format.

I have been informed by Ofcom that the team dealing with this matter follow the discussions on the SAYNOTO0870.COM forums, and have requested as many people as possible to submit a formal consulation response to Ofcom. †

The deadline for responses to the consultation is 6 December 2005, so please make sure your views are submitted.

Details and instructions for submitting your comments can be found by visiting the following pages:



The key points include

1. 0870: END TO REVENUE SHARING.
2. 0871: RE-CLASSIFIED AS PREMIUM RATE.
3. 0845: NO CHANGES FOR THE NEXT TWO YEARS.
4. 0844: INCREASED PRICE TRANSPARENCY.
5. IMPROVED CONSUMER INFORMATION.
6. ADVERTISING AND MARKETING.
7. ADULT SERVICES CONFINED TO 09 NUMBERS.
8. USE OF NTS NUMBERS BY PUBLIC BODIES.

Website Details (Ofcom)

Press Release - Ofcom consults on new approach to 0870/1 and 0844/5 numbers
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2005/09/nr_20050928

Number Translation Services - A way forward
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/

As Above (Plain English Summary)
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/nts_pes/

Proposals on 0870 numbers: FAQ's
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/mofaq/telecoms/nts/

Providing citizens and consumers with improved information about Number Translation Services and Premium Rate Services
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_info/


Downloadable Versions
Improved Information About NTS Numbers Consultation (50 pages)
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_info/ntsinfo.pdf

A way forward Consultation (216 pages)
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/nts_forward/nts_way_forward.pdf

Response Cover Sheet (Word)
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/244504/condoc_cov_sheet.doc

Response Cover Sheet (Rich Text Format)
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/244504/crcs.rtf
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« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2005 at 6:10pm by Forum Admin »  

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NonGeographicalMan
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #1 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 9:30am
 
Daniel,

Are you living in a time warp somewhere as your post did not appear on this site on the time and date stated.

As for suggesting revenue share is going to end on 0870 well sorry its not.  That is just Ofcom's misleading headline in the press release.  Revenue share will continue on 0870 for those who want it with call price announcements instead.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #2 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 12:30pm
 
There was a short interview with Matt Peacock of Ofcom on today's (Thursday's) BBC Radio 4 "you and yours" program.

Nothing new but maybe worth listening to.

They included criticism of the BBC for using these numbers ("you and yours", of course, uses an 0800 number).

The recording should be on the BBC R4 listen again site after 3pm.
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« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2005 at 1:31pm by Graham »  
 
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #3 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 1:19pm
 
well ive got an appointment with someone at ofcon tomorrow about a different matter on behalf of a member of the public I represent. FULL EXPENSES YAY!!!

Anyways Im gonna pick up a hard copy of both the consultations, easier (sic) to read in hard form then on the web.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #4 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 1:48pm
 
Am I mistaken, but Iíve a feeling that the Ofcom Consultation Announcement has been largely ignored by the media.  I saw an ITV Teletext item yesterday but thatís all.  I listened to BBC Breakfast for part of the morning but there was nothing (not surprising as theyíre always pushing their own 0870 contact number)  Likewise, I saw nothing in the Telegraph or Times.

Whose side are these hacks on?
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #5 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 2:03pm
 
What's to announce?

Its only a consultation on some further useless and ineffective Ofcom proposals designed to allow most of the scamming to continue in a revised form and the 0870 scam, and especially the 0845 scam, is not yet to be brought to an end.

I have been trying my very best.  Did you spot the guy who was interviewed alongside Matt Peacock in todays BBC R4 Your & Yours program.  I have a feeling I know him from somewhere. Wink Lips Sealed
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #6 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 2:41pm
 
It has taken Ofcom nearly twelve months to publish this new consultation. People with six-figure salaries and bonus payments have been involved. The new proposal is one huge fudge. The most bizarre aspect is that, if implemented, the proposal is that a number that many people believe, incorrectly, to be "local rate" will now cost more to call than a number associated with being "national rate".

Why does Ofcom need to perpetuate the 08 scam? The public doesn't need NTS in its current form. Organizations may need NTS, but if they do, let them pay for the features that benefit themselves.

As mikeinnc said elsewhere, why is the UK virtually unique in adopting to such a degree a numbering system that encourages revenue share?

These proposals are just unacceptable. The scam will shift elsewhere. Ofcom and the even more pathetic ICSTIS have presided over the introduction of countless telephony scams and have done NOTHING to protect the consumer. It is time these two bodies are discarded and replaced with an independent regulator, free from cronies from the telecommunication industry, so that it can regulate the UK telephone system to protect the consumer.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #7 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 2:55pm
 
Today's You and Yours broadcast can be heard in Real Audio here.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #8 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 3:06pm
 
And having now listened to this, it shows how ineffective, weak, complacent and wholly useless the UK regulator is. Listening to the Ofcom spokesman was painful given his feeble explanation that Ofcom can't do anything. Tell you what Matt - go to your masters and GET some powers to do something. Don't just sit back on your fat salary and pension - take some ACTION. You're being paid six figures, so EARN it!
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #9 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 3:39pm
 
Quote:
And having now listened to this, it shows how ineffective, weak, complacent and wholly useless the UK regulator is. Listening to the Ofcom spokesman was painful given his feeble explanation that Ofcom can't do anything. ....

It's taken nearly a year for Ofcom to come to this conclusion? Roll Eyes

Don't forget, Mr Peacock said on You and Your's last year (listen here) that they "hoped" to have the new framework in place before the end of March 2004!  Shocked

One year on, not alot's changed. The only thing is that more and more people are becoming aware of the issues. Hopefully this is leading to more and more complaints to companies using the numbers.

The Advertising Standards Authority are changing the way the numbers can be advertised, but Ofcom have yet to do something about the numbers themselves.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #10 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:14pm
 
A few years ago, the Inland Revenue had a consultation period on before the introduction of stakeholder pensions. The deadline had expired by the time I made certain enquiries and comments about phasing out of carry-back and carry-forward of pension contributions. A senior person at one of my pension funds was surprised at the seniority of a person at the Revenue that I managed to speak to. I discovered that the process of consultation received about 150 responses, almost all from pension fund managers - only about 5 from members of the public.

Why am I so off-topic so far?

The same may happen with this process - perhaps at least 95% of received submissions to this process will be from telecoms companies... unless ... news of the process, and better information counter-acting certain companies misleading statements of present costs, is made widely available to the general public.

So why isn't it in the press? It isn't interesting enough.

For most people the cost of 0870 and 0845 numbers is simply not a big issue. And the people who nerdishly dedicate themselves to cheap calls providers like 18866 etc are probably less than 100,000 in number.

Let's not keep winding each other up here - tell your friends.

Let's hope that Ofcom get 150 replies from telecoms companies, and rather more than 5 from individuals - how about 10s of 1000s?

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #11 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:20pm
 
Quote:
The same may happen with this process - perhaps at least 95% of received submissions to this process will be from telecoms companies...

Paragraph 1.24 in the "Way forward" document says that Ofcom received "over 100 responses to the October 2004 Consultation, including 74 from consumers and consumer groups."

What number "over 100" is, I'm not sure yet, maybe it says somewhere else. However, this suggests to me that there were quite a percentage of responses from consumers.
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« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2005 at 8:13pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #12 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:26pm
 
Quote:
So why isn't it in the press? It isn't interesting enough.

For most people the cost of 0870 and 0845 numbers is simply not a big issue. And the people who nerdishly dedicate themselves to cheap calls providers like 18866 etc are probably less than 100,000 in number.


It seems to be a big issue to the telecoms companies who want to keep this scam going doesn't it?  Haven't they fought tooth and nail to keep it?

Unfortunately a lot of the media have their snouts in the trough on this scam which is why it doesn't receive the adverse publicity it should do.

I would think You and Yours could be encouraged to put out a piece to get people to respond as the deadline in December approaches.

But do Ofcom have an online response form to fill in?  No they don't.  They have an offputting form with questions that they want answered.  And they have a funny cover sheet just to make it all seem more awkward and hard to respond to.  To say they are not customer focused is to put it mildly.

Just send any views you have to the email addresses for the consultation and ignore all the fiddly bits they have designed deliberately to try and put the public off responding.
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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #13 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:28pm
 
Ofcom's con doc, section 5.15 states:

Ofcom's Contact Centre keeps a record of all complaints that it receives. During the
last year, 126 complaints relating to 08 NTS numbers were recorded.

This seems at odds with its June 14, 2005 response to my FOI request [How many complaints has Ofcom received from the public that relate to the use of 0870 and similar numbers by organizations whether commercial or government?] which stated:

From 1 January 2004 to 31 May 2005 Ofcom received 1,044 Complaint/Dissatisfaction cases (there were also a further 168 queries on this issue) (source: OCMS "Cost of Non-Geographic National Rate").

Now whilst the two periods are different, and "last year" is undefined, there seems to be a significant difference here which I suspect relates either to the counting methodology and Ofcom creativeness wrt complaints and NTS, or the fact that the lying liars are at it again.
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« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:31pm by idb »  

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Re: OFCOM - FUTURE OF 0870 NUMBERS - CONSULTATION
Reply #14 - Sep 29th, 2005 at 4:38pm
 
For Ofcom to take this campaign seriously, I suspect that the number of responses from the public will need to be in the order of the number received from the last consultation, so we're looking at around one hundred. If we could get two hundred responses, this would be a major achievemement. Given the complexity of the documents together with public apathy, I suspect one hundred responses is going to be difficult.

I wonder whether the individual that provided the http://www.freeweb.telco4u.net/rachelf/index.htm site will do the same again. Recognizing that this takes time and hard work, we probably need something along similar lines that cuts through the Ofcom BS and provides an easy means for people with concerns but little time to respond.
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« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2005 at 8:15pm by Dave »  

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