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Another rip off BBC 0870 number. (Read 34,701 times)
Heinz
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Re: BBC 0870 - Cheaper Than The Cost of A Stamp!
Reply #30 - Apr 13th, 2008 at 6:55pm
 
Quote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject:      0870 - Cheaper Than The Cost of A Stamp - Gratuitous and Inappropriate Comments
Date:      Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:47:06 +0100
To:      Eddie Mair at BBC Dot Co Dot UK (real email address removed to stop Spambots)

Dear Mr Mair,

Claims that calling a BBC 0870 covert premium rate number is "cheaper than the cost of a Stamp" - PM - Friday 11th April 2008 - 5.53pm


You said, in your on air statement, that calls to 0870 numbers cost "up to 8p per minute" but this is not true as a huge volume of UK daytime calls are made on mobile phones and on a mobile phone an 0870 number is always excluded from bundled inclusive call minute packages and costs up to 40p per minute to call from within the UK.  It costs even more to call an 0870 number from overseas and they may not be contactable at all, which could well be an issue for overseas web and satellite radio listeners to your program.

And, of course, those on Sky talk will be paying 10p per minute during the day to call 0870 numbers from later this week - see HERE.
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After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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NGMsGhost
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084/7 Vs 03 Switch - Decision Time at The BBC
Reply #31 - Apr 13th, 2008 at 7:42pm
 


Perhaps you would also care to email Eddie Mair and file a Complaint on their complaints website to back me up then Heinz.  An email to the BBC R4 Feedback program - feedback@bbc.co.uk - making the point about Sky Talk customers would also not go amiss either. The producer Viv Black, who selects the letters, seems to be reasonably supportive of the saynoto0870 campaign.

I actually copied in a much larger part of the BBC Board and several directors of the BBC Trust as well.  I can always post the names if you are interested.  I didn't post all the email addresses on the basis of not helping the spam bots.

I now understand that a paper about the possibility of the BBC switching to all 03 numbers is going to the BBC Board for decision at their 21st April Board Meeting but I don't know what the recommendation about 03 numbers in that paper actually is.  Even then the Board could decide to go against that paper's recommendation.  I wonder if the Board meetings are open to the public and any of us could turn up to watch the proceedings?

If anyone feels like emailing all members of the BBC Board about this issue now is therefore the time.

See www.bbc.co.uk/info/running/executive/biographies.shtml

firstname.lastname@bbc.co.uk to email any of them.
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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2008 at 10:28pm by DaveM »  

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NGMsGhost
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Ask SayNo Members To Email BBC Board Re 03?
Reply #32 - Apr 13th, 2008 at 7:59pm
 
One would have thought that the public would be able to attend the Board Meetings of a publicly owned body like the BBC but I cannot find any evidence this is the case on their website and using Google.  Can I take it that the BBC does not in fact allow the public to attend its Board Meetings.

How about putting a notice on the front page of this site about the BBC Board meeting regarding 0870 numbers and giving the email addresses of the Board Members and encouraging all members of the public to email them between now and next Monday 21st April?
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Re: Another rip off BBC 0870 number.
Reply #33 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 4:49pm
 
I have just received back this load of quite unbelievable and totally unapologetic claptrap under the name of Roger Sawyer, Deputy Editor of the PM program.  I very much doubt he did more than finally send it out under his name having read it (presumably in ignorance of real phone call costs) as several of the misleading points are straight off the propaganda street long used by Capita run and staffed BBC Information to lie to the public about the BBC's 084 and 087 phone numbers.

1. He still refuses to apologise for the 0870 is "cheaper than a stamp" analogy even though I pointed out an 01/02/03 phone call would be free.  It appears they may even still carry on making such claims on PM therefore. Shocked Angry Cry

2. He claims the BBC doesn't make any money out of the numbers.  This is another blatant lie as they either get a big outgoing discount on their own calls from Cable & Wireless they would not get without the incoming 084/7 revenue stream and/or get cheaper line rental and switchboard equipment out of Cable & Wireless they would not get if Cable & Wireless was not earning the revenue share.  He even says they could take a rebate on the calls and don't.  In which case why don't they immediately use 03 then. Wink Roll Eyes

3. He perpetrates the old longstanding Capita/BBC Information lie that on an 0845 number they are charitably sharing part of the call cost with the caller.  But as an 01/02/03 call to the BBC would be free how can they share a part of the cost of nothing then?  If they are really paying to receive their 0845 calls their Finance Director needs to be fired for gross incompetence.

4. He perpetrates the old lie that they use 0845 purely so as to not have different call costs from different parts of the UK as this would be unfair.  This despite the fact that no major telco including BT has had local call pricing for at least 3 years now.   Also again it ignores the point that 03 is the same to everybody but free at the weekends and/or all the time for those on call packages.

This is quite unbelievable.  I am going to reply exposing his lies and copying all members of the BBC Board, BBC Trust, Eddie Mair and the producer and editor of the PM program. Angry

Quote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject:      FW: 0870 - Cheaper Than The Cost of A Stamp - Gratuitous and Inappropriate Comments
Date:      Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:10:55 +0100
From:      Roger Sawyer <roger.sawyer@bbc.co.uk>

Dear Mr __________,

Thank you for your email.

Eddie Mair said calls "cost no more than 8p a minute from a BT line... ...cheaper than  a stamp".

Calls do cost no more than 8p a minute from a BT line. Such a call - provided it does not go on for more than about three minutes - does cost less than a Second Class stamp.

You mention mobile phones and the additional costs they incur. A few points. There is no rule that listeners are obliged to call us the instant they want to make a comment... they are perfectly welcome to wait until they are at home and can call us from a landline at their leisure.  We also find that people who want to contact us to comment instantly by mobile phone do so by text message.  Also, it is the mobile phone providers who charge extra for calls to certain numbers, not us.

Calls, because they take the form of listener monologues rather than dialogue, are usually short and to the point and callers don't seem to mind the cost. For the vast majority of callers, it is much, much cheaper than sending a letter (which many people do) and cheaper than sending a text message (which, again, many people do).

The BBC does not make any money out of 0870 numbers.  They are regulated by the BBC's own internal editorial policy team and externally by Icstis, the official regulator. A rebate is available to organisations who use 0870 numbers - but the BBC has waived its right to this in return for better telephone services for the audience.

We have at PM looked at the provision of either an 0800 (free) or 0845 (cost shared between BBC and listener) number instead of the 0870 number for the PM Letter line. The issue was whether our budget was better spent on making programmes or in funding a letter line. We do not subsidise people who write in and people who send texts. Nor do we subsidise people who don't have broadband and have to use a telephone dial up to send email and therefore incur costs there . So we decided not to subsidise the letter line from our programme budget.

The BBC has been looking at using 03 geographic numbers. I don't know what is beign decided on this. The reason we do not provide an 0208 number is that it is felt it could put people off who are calling from outside London.  

In conclusion, Eddie mair's comments were not, in my view, gratuitous or inappropriate. They were accurate and helpful.

Yours sincerely,

Roger Sawyer
Deputy Editor
PM/Broadcasting House
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« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2008 at 5:19pm by NGMsGhost »  

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Re: Another rip off BBC 0870 number.
Reply #34 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 4:57pm
 
Quote:
The reason we do not provide an 0208 number is that it is felt it could put people off who are calling from outside London.


So this guy is living in about 1995 then, when it would have been more expensive (or equally as expensive...?) to call the 0870 number as to call a London number? Nobody cares where the number is based! If that was the case, then presumably Watchdog would have nobody ringing in...

Clearly shows how far out of touch with the real world BBC employees are.
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Re: Another rip off BBC 0870 number.
Reply #35 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 5:16pm
 
A standard scripted lie used by all the Capita employed staff of BBC Information.  Capita have repeatedly refused to stop using these lies despite them obviously becoming inappropriate in the light of the launch of all calls plans to 01/02/03 numbers like BT Option 3, and even more inappropriate following the launch of 03 prefixed phone numbers.

Capita are the lowest of the low when it comes to 084/7 call abuse and they have even created these various basically bare faced lies to be given out when any complaints are made.  Capita are really little more than a commercial extortion racket interested only making money and not in happy customers or a decent product.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BBC Information is unbelievably abysmal compared to the old BBC Duty Office in London that used to take complaints until the mid to late 1990s.

I just checked with the BBC Trust whether the public can attend meetings of either the Trust or the BBC Board as observers.  Apparently they cannot even though this is common practice for the boards of other truly public sector bodies like NHS Trusts.  So regarding the upcoming decision by the BBC Board regarding 03 numbers on Monday the only solution is for as many as possible of us here to email all the BBC Board and BBC Trust's members about this issue indicating why they must vote in favour of 03 numbers on Monday.

# Offensive comments removed ~ DaveM
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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2008 at 10:45pm by DaveM »  

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Re: Another rip off BBC 0870 number.
Reply #36 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 5:26pm
 
NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 17th, 2008 at 5:16pm:
Capita are really little more than a commercial extortion racket interested only making money and not in happy customers or a decent product.


I can agree with the decent product malarkey - I've had some first hand experience of their "products".

Quote:
[...] the only solution is for as many as possible of us here to email all the BBC Board and BBC Trust's members about this issue indicating why they must vote in favour of 03 numbers on Monday.


Perhaps a good idea would be to provide a semi-filled template for forum members to fill in, and maybe send out an announcement to all members about it.
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Re: Another rip off BBC 0870 number.
Reply #37 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 6:35pm
 



Its getting a bit late for that, given that the meeting to decide the 03 question by the BBC Board is on Monday.  Also I'm suggesting writing to individual email addresses of all BBC Board and Exec members.  I supect Daniel may feel it is going OTT to put this in front of those merely looking up numbers on the site.

I will post a new thread specifically on the subject of sending an email re the discussion at the BBC Board on Monday and ask moderators if they will sticky it.

We need informed and well written emails that are individual.  Even 10 or 15 so such emails around all the Board and BBC Trust members might make quite a difference.  If their mailboxes were saturated with 500 stock emails they might just feel they were being spammed and just delete the whole lot without reading them.  Unfortunately the BBC's Finance Director (who must have been one of the prime moving forces to cause the original use of 084/7) just deletes all emails that appear to come from the public without reading them but most of his colleagues on the Board seem less contemptuous of the public and one does get Read Receipts.

I got the strong original impression from Michael Stock (a top level manager wallah but not director involved with the BBC Viewer & Listener side of things including BBC Information) that the paper he would write to the BBC Board would be in favour of 03.  But then the paper was delayed due to the Ofcom 0870 delay from 1st Feb and I am concerned that the recommendation could now just be to carry on with 0870 until and unless Ofcom ever does end the revenue share on 0870.  Alternatively it could be that Mr Stock has been pressurised by Pro Capita forces in the Corporation to say recommend moving to 5p per minute at all times 0844 on the basis that it appears to look more like a local number (even though it is not) and that this is also what many other major scammers (eg DSG Retail) previously using 0870 have been doing.

It could be the paper for the Board leaves the final decision up to the Board and does not make any recommendation, although probably this is unlikely as they must look at a lot of papers for each meeting that probably go through on the nod without discussion, unless individual Board members choose to challenge the recommendation and force a discussion by other Board members.

We certainly cannot be sure the BBC is going to go with moving to 03, hence why some selective email lobbying by informed members of the forum may help.  Actually thinking about it I might send a PM to those forum members who I know are regulars and could write something effective to email to BBC Board members.
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« Last Edit: Apr 22nd, 2008 at 10:29pm by DaveM »  

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Re: Another rip off BBC 0870 number.
Reply #38 - Apr 17th, 2008 at 8:48pm
 
Please go to the new thread I have just started regarding a crucial meeting of the BBC Executive Board on Monday April 21st to decide whether or not to switch to geographic call rate 03 numbers for all of the BBC's normal contact telephone numbers for all its programs and all its radio and tv stations.

Your help in emailing members of the BBC Executive Board and BBC Trust to indicate your personal backing for a switch by the BBC to all 03 numbers would be very helpful in persuading the BBC to take the right decision as we do not know whether the BBC Board Members have been advised to choose the 03 option or to choose some other more undesirable alternative such as switching to all 0845 or all 0844 5p per minute phone numbers.

See my new thread on this topic at www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1208458341/0
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