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GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers banned (Read 173,335 times)
CJT-80
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #15 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 3:45pm
 
reponse to my e-mail from previous post -------------

I recieved a response from Earl Howe - http://www.conservatives.com/People/Peers/Howe_Frederick.aspx

I edited the reponse to give the main point it advises as follows:

"my local practice has advised the PCT that it's patients should pay no more than the equivalent cost of a standard telephone call to a geographic number.. (that's helpful)

The PCT has confirmed the practice will review the options when it's contact with the current supplier is up for renewal... "

As per SCV's posts I now intend to reply giving the links and information regarding the DoH's own guidelines, and getting assurance they will be abided by on or before April 2011.

To SCV or anyone else, is there a specific link to details advising NEG/TalkTalk can and WILL provide an 0344 number as apposed to the 0844 number prior to the deadline?

Any help is greatfully appreciated.
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CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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Dave
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #16 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 4:12pm
 
CJT-80 wrote on Sep 26th, 2010 at 3:45pm:
The PCT has confirmed the practice will review the options when it's contact with the current supplier is up for renewal... "

Considering one's options is something which is worthwhile when any contract comes up for renewal.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #17 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 6:08pm
 
CJT-80 wrote on Sep 26th, 2010 at 3:45pm:
Any help is greatfully appreciated.

Just so as not to disappoint those who clasped their hands to their foreheads on seeing such a request being made of myself Wink

Unless the contract for telephone service ends before 31 March 2011, more prompt action will be necessary to remain in compliance with terms of the GMS contract.

It seems that the Minister, the MP, the PCT and (probably) the practice have been wickedly deceived.

There is no obligation whatsoever on any telephone service provider to charge "no more than the equivalent cost of a standard telephone call to a geographic number" to call a 0844 (call type g6) number. The "should" is nonsense.

BT is required to charge no more than 5p per minute (including VAT), but this regulation only applies to BT and its pence minute rate in absolute terms. The "call setup fee" that BT charges is unregulated, as are BT's rates for calling geographic numbers. Residential BT customers are served by Call Plans which offer calls to geographic numbers as inclusive for the times when one uses the telephone. Those who never make weekday daytime calls are best advised not to take the Anytime Call Plan, whereas those who do are unlikely to find it economic not to do so, especially after the price revisions coming into effect from 1 October.

BT however originates less that 30% of residential calls, according to Ofcom figures. It is possible that the all the patients of the practice in question (bar one) are most unusual, in that they all have BT landlines and the only weekday daytime calls they make are to the doctor (and they never call the doctor's number in the evening, at night or at weekends to access the out of hours service). If so, then they would find the cost of calling a 0844 number cheaper than the cost of a call to a geographic number at present. (The Ofcom proposals to be published in a consultation at the end of October are expected to include removal of the limitation on BT that creates this perverse effect.)

In all other cases the cost of calling the 0844 number is greater than that of calling a geographic number. This is only what would be expected when the additional cost of the revenue share has to be carried on top of a normal (un-prohibited) margin. Under the terms of the revised GMS contract, practices must consider "the arrangement as a whole", they cannot just consider one group of patients. The penalty charge imposed by one particular telephone company on those who make calls to geographic numbers outside the terms of their selected call plan cannot be considered as being a "standard charge". Furthermore, the uniquely regulated rates charged by one telephone company for calls to 0844 numbers cannot be considered typical.


During the time when the changes to 0870 were going through, Talk Talk (Opal Telecom) published a document outlining the option for customers with 087 and 084 numbers to migrate to 037 / 034 within the terms of their contract for telephone service. I referred to this, with links, in my blog posting - NHS GPs using 0844 numbers can change to 0344. The Opal website has subsequently been revamped and both the old news item and the associated booklet are no longer available. (I do not see this as being a "sinister cover-up", it is just that the big issue with 0870 has now passed.)

The telephone service used by Surgery Line customers is provided by Talk Talk (Opal) - the registered regulated provider, with NEG acting simply as an unregistered sales agent. The line and number through which the telephone service is provided is separate from the other services provided by NEG. It may be that the overall contract with NEG has many years to run, and that the surgery is obliged to take its telephone service from Talk Talk for this period. There is however no reason why the number change necessary for proper compliance with the terms of the contract with the NHS cannot be made.

If the number change could not be made, then the practice would be required to incur the enormous expense and inconvenience of calling back to almost every patient who wanted to make contact by telephone. That would be an absurd and ridiculous lowering of service standards and a waste of money. (I believe that this provision is in the GMS contract simply as a fall back because the NHS cannot compel practices to terminate existing arrangements with providers.)


The question of how NEG and Talk Talk would react to a specific request to change to the equivalent 0344 number has not yet been answered. I have not yet been successful in persuading a practice to make such a request formally and to discuss the response in public. I do have anecdotal evidence of Surgery Line customers moving back to geographic numbers, however I am not sufficiently clear on the full detail to warrant using these to prove some general point. I also have an email message from NEG confirming that all customers are offered the option of using a 03 number!

I see no point now in playing around with "what if's" and theoretical possibilities. We need to get someone to ask the direct question and be ready to publish the direct response. The March 2011 deadline is approaching and there will be plenty of other issues to discuss once the new Health Bill is published.
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CJT-80
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #18 - Sep 26th, 2010 at 6:54pm
 
Thank you SCV,

It looks like I should start by directly e-mail my local practice, and see what their direct response to this situation is.

Any idea how to e-mail a Chief Exec at my local PCT or is it best to try e-mailing the PCT directly?

Just thought it a worth while venture based on that response from Earl Howe.

Thanks again for ALL the help provided by everyone.

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Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com
 
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Dave
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #19 - Nov 15th, 2010 at 7:33pm
 
An FOI response from Southward PCT has just been posted on WhatDoTheyKnow:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/use_of_premium_cost_telephone_nu#incoming-...

The request was for information in connection with GPs using 0844 phone numbers:

Quote:
1. any directives or guidelines issued to GP/dental surgeries regarding the abandonment of 0844 numbers for 020 or 03 numbers.

2. any list of non-complying surgeries maintained by or known to the Southwark PCT.

3. any documents maintained or generated by the Southwark PCT as to what penalties or sanctions will be imposed onto practices and surgeries that continue to violate the requirements.


The response acknowledges that surgeries are "locked into contracts using 08 numbers". Not sure if this means that the contracts lock them into using 08 numbers, or that it merely means that they are locked into contracts, which, at present, use 08 numbers to fulfil them but are not required as part of the contracts.

It goes on to say:
Quote:
It is evident from the information available that the cost of calling an 08 number  varies from provider to provider with only BT landlines incurring a true ‘lo call’ cost.  Costs increase when using other providers and increase significantly when using a  mobile (potentially up to 35p a minute).  Complaints and feedback from patients  focus on being unaware of the above, and question the information provided by  practices about the use and costs involved when calling an 08 number.

Based on the above information, Southwark PCT are requesting that practices inform their patients that they are using an 08 number and the cost implications if using a  provider other than a BT landline.  The message to be communicated needs to state:  

‘Please be aware that you are calling an 08 number.  Calls to this line are  charged at lo-call rate if using a BT landline, but costs vary and increase if  using another network provider.  Please be aware calls from a mobile phone  could potentially cost up to 35p per minute’.

The use of the term "lo call" has no place in any guidance on price. It was a BT trademark and in general usage can be taken to mean "local".

What's more, these three paragraphs do not explain the actual absolute cost from BT landlines.

They also say that it is providers other than BT that "increase" call costs, when it is in fact the other way around. Any "increase" occurs due to the financial support passed to practices for their phone systems. BT, by regulation, is only allowed to reflect the cost of that subsidy in its call rates, and so must offset its costs elsewhere.

The sooner that Ofcom changes the rules and drops this regulation the better. Then there will be nowhere at all for these fee-charging GPs to hide!
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« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2010 at 7:33pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #20 - Dec 11th, 2010 at 9:05am
 
Please see this posting for more information on this story.

A local radio piece on a hospital that has abandoned its 0844 numbers will move on to discuss the fact that NHS GPs must do the same. With Simon Burns, local MP and Minister of State for Health, contributing it is possible that something interesting may emerge.
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Dave
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #21 - Dec 11th, 2010 at 3:29pm
 
Source: Essex Chronicle/Essex Gazette

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/Patients-forced-ring-premium-phone-number...

NHS Patients still forced to ring premium-rate phone numbers
Thursday, December 09, 2010, 08:00

PATIENTS across Essex are still being forced to use extortionate premium phone numbers to call doctors and dentists – despite government recommendations that they be scrapped.

Last week the Chronicle revealed that the NHS Mid Essex Hospitals Trust scrapped 0844 lines after a catalogue of complaints from frustrated patients and reverted to local 01245 numbers.

But some GP and dental surgeries are still using the costly 084 numbers instead of the local area code.

Roger Collins, 68, of Broomfield Road, Chelmsford, said his doctor's surgery in Sunrise Avenue had recently changed their number from to one with an 0844 code.





What a disgrace, surgeries still switching to these numbers, even well after the announcement that they are to be banned by the end of March 2011.
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #22 - Dec 26th, 2010 at 12:01am
 
Cornwall and Isles of Scilly PCT has dropped its 0845 numbers and replaced it with a 01726 one. This was done on one day before the 21st December deadline set by the Directive:

http://www.cornwallandislesofscilly.nhs.uk/CornwallAndIslesOfScillyPCT/MediaCent...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-12055027
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #23 - Jan 9th, 2011 at 9:51am
 
We are now in the final quarter during which all NHS GPs have to give up their use of expensive telephone numbers to remain in compliance with the terms of their contract with their PCT, representing the NHS.

The highlight on the "Service Charge" element of the cost of calling any 084 number contained in the Ofcom consultation helps to draw attention to this issue.

I do not normally report my specific campaigning efforts in this forum, however members may be interested to refer to this blog posting and to the further comments referenced from there.

I see it as vital that the Department of Health and one of its Ministers gets involved in this matter in the next few weeks, so that GPs have some chance of doing what they need to do before the end of March deadline.

Pathfinder GP Consortia have already been established (as the successors to PCTs and SHAs) and the Bill which will bring in all of the NHS reforms is likely to be introduced to parliament very shortly. With all of the effort being put into saving money and management devices it is vital that the principles of the NHS, as represented by this issue, are maintained and that effective mechanisms are in place to prevent other scams such as Surgery Line from being perpetrated in future. Alternatively it may be decided that the principles of the NHS are outdated and unsuitable for the future of healthcare in the UK - in which case the NHS must be formally abolished.
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #24 - Jan 24th, 2011 at 8:31pm
 
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/8799805.LOUGHTON__Surgery_manager_vows_to_...

Quote:
LOUGHTON: Surgery manager vows to scrap premium-rate number
1:39pm Wednesday 19th January 2011

By Clare Hardy »

A HEALTH centre manager has vowed to scrap her surgery's premium rate phone number after the Guardian revealed the massive phone bills patients are running up.

Anyone who wants to make an appointment at Loughton Health Centre in The Drive currently has to call its 0844-prefixed number, which can cost up to twice as much as a local number.

One patient, Whitehills Road resident Marie Alexis, 41, spent £10 in mobile phone credit trying to make an appointment for her eight-year-old daughter Jayga Leslie, who has a bad flu and fever.

[…]

She said she had run out of credit and had to send text messages to friends and relatives to ask them to call the surgery for her.

[…]
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« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2011 at 8:34pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #25 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:20am
 
The apalling rip-off by GPs continues, as perfectly illustrated by this letter to "This is Derbyshire", describing the frustration and uselessness of 0844 numbers, Surgery Line, NEG promises, NHS statements and Dept Of Health announcements.   How many GPs have taken action to comply with their NHS contract?    These are the same GPs who the current Government are planning to put in control of 80% of the whole NHS annual spend ( £80 billion )!!  Shocked Shocked

"Surgery's phone queue keeps me hanging on

SCENARIO: 8.00am, I ring relevant 0844 number to my GP's surgery. An electronic voice directs me to press one of a series of numbers for the relevant assistance. I press "one for appointments". A voice confirms that I am through to appointments.

Music plays.

The voice informs me that I am in a call queue, that there is currently a high volume of callers but reassures me that my call is important to them, I am number 29 in the queue and to continue to hold.

I grip the phone in anticipation when the voice returns and tells me "you are currently number... 27 in the queue". My grip relaxes, as does my bladder. Small dilemma, do I call back later and risk a longer queue, or cross my legs and pray? The voice announces that my call is important, so I wait.

Oh silly me, I have a cordless phone. I take the phone with me – the receptionist will enjoy the sound of rushing water in the background. Returning to my chair, I am now relieved in body and mind as I find I am now only 23 in the queue.

The music plays on to accompany my banging headache.

Now, if I was semi-fit I might hold on to my sense of humour but I feel even more poorly and need the loo again for another purpose. Do I hope to connect and let them hear me amid full flow of sickness and diarrhoea, or call back later? Too ill to care, I grasp the phone and head to the bathroom, only to drop the machine and it disconnects. Now 8.29am.

8.48am, resume call to GP. Wow! I am now number 25 in the queue, How much has this call cost? I feel too ill to care, I need my bed.

Later, after a prolonged attempt to get through again, I am informed that I am too late to get an appointment with the GP I requested and I could ring back next week or see a locum.

I see the locum doctor. He hasn't a clue about the issues my GP wanted to see me about in the first place and advises me to re-book at reception. ARGGGGHHHH!

Jennifer Stevenson

Shelton Lock
"

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/letters/Surgery-s-phone-queue-keeps-hanging/ar...
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Dave
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #26 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 12:45pm
 
loddon wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:20am:
The apalling rip-off by GPs continues, as perfectly illustrated by this letter to "This is Derbyshire", describing the frustration and uselessness of 0844 numbers, Surgery Line, NEG promises, NHS statements and Dept Of Health announcements.   How many GPs have taken action to comply with their NHS contract?    These are the same GPs who the current Government are planning to put in control of 80% of the whole NHS annual spend ( £80 billion )!!  Shocked Shocked

And how much money has been spent on consultations and other waste of time exercises by DoH over the many years that 0870 and 0844 numbers have been used by charging GPs?

And how much money has been spent by patients ringing their doctor or other NHS service that they wouldn't have had it been a number starting 01, 02 or 03?
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #27 - Mar 2nd, 2011 at 8:43pm
 
Although the NHS covers all of the UK and is owned by all UK citizens, its management is devolved to the national governments.

Most of what is discussed here only applies to England, although Wales has copied with similarly ineffective results.

The latest situation in Scotland is covered by this blog posting.
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #28 - Mar 21st, 2011 at 8:29am
 
Members may be interested to note a report of campaigning activity. The items in question have now just hit the airwaves.

There is a possibility for those who may agree with the thrust of this effort to follow up in their own way.
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Re: GP contract revised - "expensive" numbers bann
Reply #29 - Mar 21st, 2011 at 8:50am
 
SCV...


I can't find this one on your list


http://www.holbrooksurgery.com/
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