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How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles (Read 36,076 times)
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How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Mar 1st, 2014 at 10:57am
 
I can't be the first to ask this question, but I've looked and can't see. Is there a golden idiot-rule here? Many don't realsie, not all 07XXX are charged out at premium mobile rates, but at the still higher 07XXX NGN rates.

A 07405 number i dailled today cost me £3.20 for 14 minutes. It took me ten minutes to work out via my provider the tariff for 07405.
Now it used to be easy, 070XX was a follow-me number (at 50p a minute) and everythign else a mobile. This is not true today. The telcos bury the information with confusing charge bands, is there an idiot-rule or if not a database of premium-premium NGN 07XXX numbers?


Maybe in the form of a XLS or comma/tab delim file to do a quick, "Is it a mobile or not a mobile" looksee?

I can find plenty of places listing NGN numbers, but these include 0300s 0800s et al. None listing the extra-extra premium numbers as distinct form std. 07XXX

Is there a web site lsiting these? I know ofcom would have us believe they are simplifying it, biut in the meantime, how do you tell?
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 11:08am by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #1 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:41pm
 
I got the following information from Ofcom:-

070x  Personal number
076x  RadioPaging number

075x  Mobile
077x  Mobile
078x  Mobile
079x  Mobile

Not sure what 074x numbers are.

However, things also get complicated by the fact that each OCP (Originating Communications Provider) can charge what they like for these calls and even exclude certain number from a range and charge differently for that.

For example, if an unusual amount of traffic (ie calls) goes to a specific number 077x then the OCP may determine that this number is not used for calling a personal mobile and in fact maybe a dial-through provider and as such may then exclude that as being a mobile number and charge differently for it.

I use Magenta Systems CodeLook for looking up number ranges and which network the number was originally** allocated to.

I don't know how accurate this information is.  Maybe other members may have a better accurate lookup.


** Due to number portability it's not easy to know which network a number is allocated to now so any information about an operator is considered to be the originating operator (ie the operator that originally requested the number range from Ofcom)
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:54pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #2 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 2:01pm
 
Actually looking at that Ofcom page,  this Excel (.xls) sheet produced by Ofcom states which network the range originally belonged to.

This could be used to double check that Magenta Systems CodeLookup information is correct.

I see now that 07405 belongs to LycaMobile and is charged, according to BT, as FW7 WiFi Services.

I googled FW7 WiFi Service and found page from TalkTalk forum where it states
Quote:
These numbers are indeed routed differently. If you call them your call is actually dialling into a server which is linked with other worldwide servers owned by the network you are calling. Thus Lycamobile and truphone can offer cheap rates in selected countries they are based in. So in uk with its server on o2. You actually physically roam on them. a landline call is sent through their servers and actually looks like is routed via some sort of voip so will explain why it shows unavailable on my caller display also why talktalk rates it as a wi fi number that the call routes to a server rather than mobile company

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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 2:15pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #3 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 3:35pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:41pm:
I use Magenta Systems CodeLook for looking up number ranges and which network the number was originally** allocated to.

I don't know how accurate this information is.  Maybe other members may have a better accurate lookup.


** Due to number portability it's not easy to know which network a number is allocated to now so any information about an operator is considered to be the originating operator (ie the operator that originally requested the number range from Ofcom)

The Ofcom link you provided is the source data.

Number portability is irrelevant in cases of charging except where the call is being made from the donor operator or recipient operator (the former is the operator whose number block it is and the latter is the one where the call is terminated).

This is because calls are passed to the operator whose number block it is on, except in the two circumstances outlined. The industry decided not to have a central database of ported numbers (i.e. those that don't terminate on their native network) and so it is down to each operator to keep a database of numbers that have been ported in and a database of those ported out.
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #4 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 4:57pm
 
The National Telephone Number Plan defines 071 to 075 inclusive and 077 to 079 inclusive as being for the purpose of "Mobile Services".

Said term is defined thus:
Quote:
‘Mobile Service’ means a service consisting in the conveyance of Signals, by means of an Electronic Communications Network, where every Signal that is conveyed thereby has been, or is to be, conveyed through the agency of Wireless Telegraphy to or from Apparatus designed or adapted to be capable of being used while in motion.

Most mobile numbers are allocated to "3", EE (Orange and T-Mobile), O2 and Vodafone. However, some are allocated to "other" providers, which evidently are Mobile Services.

O2 maintains a list of what it calls 07 non-mobile and call forwarding services. Whilst 07405 doesn't feature, quite a few others do.

The 3 Price Guide gives a list of what it calls "Non Standard 07 numbers": 074060 / 074061 / 074062 / 074067 / 0740671 - 9 / 074176 / 074181 / 0741821 - 9 / 074185 / 074411 / 074413 / 074414 / 074515 / 075200 / 075201 / 075203 / 075204 / 075205 / 075206 / 075207 / 075208 / 075209 / 075370 / 075371 / 075373 / 075375 / 075376 / 075377 / 075378 / 075379 / 075580 / 075581 / 075582 / 075590 / 075591 / 075592 / 075593 / 075594 / 075595 / 075596 / 075597 / 075598 / 075599 / 075710 / 075718 / 075890 / 075891 / 075892 / 075893 / 075898 / 075899 / 077000 / 077001 / 077442 / 077443 / 077444 / 077445 / 077446 / 077447 / 077448 / 077449 / 0775520 / 0775522 / 0775530 / 0775532-5 / 0775539 / 0775540-6 / 0775548-9 / 0775550 / 0775555 / 078220 / 078221 / 078223 / 078224 / 078225 / 078226 / 078227 / 078229 / 078644 / 78722 / 078727 / 078730 / 078744 / 078745 / 078920 / 078922 / 078925 / 078931 / 078933 / 078938 / 078939 / 079111 / 079112 / 079117 / 079118 / 079245 / 079246 / 079780 / 079781 / 079782 / 079783 / 079784 / 079785 / 079786 / 079788 / 079789

Out of interest, are these two the same?
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 4:59pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #5 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 5:35pm
 
Normally when you see a complaint about being charged to call a 07404/5 number its a T-Mob customer.T-Mob  had a long run in with Lyca and others over expensive termination charges and use to charge for calls to these and other numbering ranges. This was resolved contracts taken out after 1/2/2012 include them in inclusive minutes and contracts taken out before dont  see:

http://help.ee.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1016&PARTITION_...

Other networks use to and still do include Lyca Numbers in inclusive minutes.

A lot of these type of numbers tend to be used for call forwarding to get cheaper intl calls. All networks tend to exclude numbers used for this purpose.

T-Mobile still bar such  numbers used for call forwarding purposes as do Orange see http://studio.orange.co.uk/service_plans/paymonthly/075890m.html
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:02pm by bigjohn »  

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #6 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:07pm
 
It would have been a lot easier if Ofcom would have specifically said certain number ranges are actual personal mobile numbers and certain other range is this WiFi service (as defined by BT).

It seems that 074x numbers could be either.  I do hope it's just 074 and not other common mobile ranges like 075x, 078x, 079x  Wink
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #7 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:14pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:07pm:
It would have been a lot easier if Ofcom would have specifically said certain number ranges are actual personal mobile numbers and certain other range is this WiFi service (as defined by BT).

It seems that 074x numbers could be either.  I do hope it's just 074 and not other common mobile ranges like 075x, 078x, 079x  Wink


When did Ofcom make things easier. Smiley

Some 075/078/079 numbers are already blocked when used for cheap call purposes.

EG See www.bollywoodtelecom.com whose  07822 151376 and 07924 897599 numbers are charged by 3.
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:20pm by bigjohn »  

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #8 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:34pm
 
It's horrible. There is no idiot rule here.
I've just put those two lists together and whilst there is duplication they are not the same. I will try to post the list as one.

But I've tried. I'm a bit geeky. This board won't accept my HTML. I will post a standard tab file thus...
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:49pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:43pm
 
070      Premium NGN Number
07405      Premium NGN Number
074060      Premium NGN Number
074061      Premium NGN Number
074062      Premium NGN Number
074063      Premium NGN Number
074064      Premium NGN Number
074065      Premium NGN Number
074066      Premium NGN Number
074067      Premium NGN Number
0740671      Premium NGN Number
0740672      Premium NGN Number
0740673      Premium NGN Number
0740674      Premium NGN Number
0740675      Premium NGN Number
0740676      Premium NGN Number
0740677      Premium NGN Number
0740678      Premium NGN Number
0740679      Premium NGN Number
074068      Premium NGN Number
074069      Premium NGN Number
074171      Premium NGN Number
074172      Premium NGN Number
074176      Premium NGN Number
074177      Premium NGN Number
074179      Premium NGN Number
074181      Premium NGN Number
074181      Premium NGN Number
074182      Premium NGN Number
0741821      Premium NGN Number
0741822      Premium NGN Number
0741823      Premium NGN Number
0741824      Premium NGN Number
0741825      Premium NGN Number
0741826      Premium NGN Number
0741827      Premium NGN Number
0741828      Premium NGN Number
0741829      Premium NGN Number
074185      Premium NGN Number
074186      Premium NGN Number
074188      Premium NGN Number
074390      Premium NGN Number
074391      Premium NGN Number
074409      Premium NGN Number
074410      Premium NGN Number
074411      Premium NGN Number
074412      Premium NGN Number
074413      Premium NGN Number
074414      Premium NGN Number
074415      Premium NGN Number
074417      Premium NGN Number
074418      Premium NGN Number
074419      Premium NGN Number
074515      Premium NGN Number
074516      Premium NGN Number
074517      Premium NGN Number
074572      Premium NGN Number
074574      Premium NGN Number
074577      Premium NGN Number
074578      Premium NGN Number
074579      Premium NGN Number
074580      Premium NGN Number
074581      Premium NGN Number
074582      Premium NGN Number
074583      Premium NGN Number
074584      Premium NGN Number
074588      Premium NGN Number
074653      Premium NGN Number
074655      Premium NGN Number
075200      Premium NGN Number
075201      Premium NGN Number
075203      Premium NGN Number
075204      Premium NGN Number
075205      Premium NGN Number
075206      Premium NGN Number
075207      Premium NGN Number
075208      Premium NGN Number
075209      Premium NGN Number
075370      Premium NGN Number
075371      Premium NGN Number
075373      Premium NGN Number
075375      Premium NGN Number
075376      Premium NGN Number
075377      Premium NGN Number
075378      Premium NGN Number
075379      Premium NGN Number
075580      Premium NGN Number
075581      Premium NGN Number
075582      Premium NGN Number
075590      Premium NGN Number
075591      Premium NGN Number
075592      Premium NGN Number
075593      Premium NGN Number
075594      Premium NGN Number
075595      Premium NGN Number
075596      Premium NGN Number
075597      Premium NGN Number
075598      Premium NGN Number
075599      Premium NGN Number
075710      Premium NGN Number
075718      Premium NGN Number
075890      Premium NGN Number
075891      Premium NGN Number
075892      Premium NGN Number
075893      Premium NGN Number
075898      Premium NGN Number
075899      Premium NGN Number
077000      Premium NGN Number
077001      Premium NGN Number
077442      Premium NGN Number
077443      Premium NGN Number
077444      Premium NGN Number
077445      Premium NGN Number
077446      Premium NGN Number
077447      Premium NGN Number
077448      Premium NGN Number
077449      Premium NGN Number
077530      Premium NGN Number
077552      Premium NGN Number
0775520      Premium NGN Number
0775522      Premium NGN Number
077553      Premium NGN Number
0775530      Premium NGN Number
0775532      Premium NGN Number
0775533      Premium NGN Number
0775534      Premium NGN Number
0775535      Premium NGN Number
0775539      Premium NGN Number
077554      Premium NGN Number
0775540      Premium NGN Number
0775541      Premium NGN Number
0775542      Premium NGN Number
0775543      Premium NGN Number
0775544      Premium NGN Number
0775545      Premium NGN Number
0775546      Premium NGN Number
0775548      Premium NGN Number
0775549      Premium NGN Number
077555      Premium NGN Number
0775550      Premium NGN Number
0775555      Premium NGN Number
078220      Premium NGN Number
078221      Premium NGN Number
078222      Premium NGN Number
078223      Premium NGN Number
078224      Premium NGN Number
078225      Premium NGN Number
078226      Premium NGN Number
078227      Premium NGN Number
078229      Premium NGN Number
078644      Premium NGN Number
078722      Premium NGN Number
078727      Premium NGN Number
078730      Premium NGN Number
078744      Premium NGN Number
078745      Premium NGN Number
078920      Premium NGN Number
078922      Premium NGN Number
078925      Premium NGN Number
078930      Premium NGN Number
078931      Premium NGN Number
078933      Premium NGN Number
078938      Premium NGN Number
078939      Premium NGN Number
079110      Premium NGN Number
079111      Premium NGN Number
079112      Premium NGN Number
079117      Premium NGN Number
079118      Premium NGN Number
079245      Premium NGN Number
079246      Premium NGN Number
079780      Premium NGN Number
079781      Premium NGN Number
079782      Premium NGN Number
079783      Premium NGN Number
079784      Premium NGN Number
079785      Premium NGN Number
079786      Premium NGN Number
079787      Premium NGN Number
079788      Premium NGN Number
079789      Premium NGN Number
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:47pm
 
The above is an amalgam of info. Premium-premium raters Of course your network may include some of these as std mobiles with associated std premium mobile rates. ie not premium-premium. But be suspicious of the above.

Therein lies the problem..
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:51pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 7:00pm
 
Look here http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1301138312 and your see their was a discussion about them yonks ago.

Are you on T-Mobile by any chance.
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 7:12pm
 
Oh jeezz, it has been covered then.

Fool.

My providers. Virgin, T Mobile & 3 Variously.

If I look on the list on that other thread, my own 07742 number originally with 02 is also a super-premium rate to some callers. Now I can assure you it has no porting or suchlike and never did. There is no winning here?
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 7:40pm by 03700000000 »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 11:42pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:07pm:
It would have been a lot easier if Ofcom would have specifically said certain number ranges are actual personal mobile numbers and certain other range is this WiFi service (as defined by BT).

What is the difference between these numbers on which this distinction could have been made?

It is only in recent years that, from landlines, mobile rates to the five main networks have fallen into line. This is entirely voluntary. What is behind other numbers not doing so? Is it down to higher termination charges or is it down to call retailers (OCPs) just imposing retail premiums? Or is there another reason?


bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 6:07pm:
It seems that 074x numbers could be either.  I do hope it's just 074 and not other common mobile ranges like 075x, 078x, 079x  Wink

The only possible significance is that 074xxx numbers are generally newer-allocated prefixes. Maybe there are more of these "other" operators springing up in more recent years.
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« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2014 at 11:45pm by Dave »  
 
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #14 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 4:34am
 
This posting is left empty intentially.
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« Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2014 at 4:40am by Dave »  
 
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