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Nationwide Building Society (Read 223,224 times)

NGMsGhost

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #75 - Mar 16^th, 2009 at 2:05pm

Barbara wrote on Mar 16^th, 2009 at 9:33am:

Another kick in the teeth for Nationwide customers!

Rather off topic of telephone numbers but in keeping with the general tone that Nationwide has decided to abandon its customers' interests & become like all other banks, this morning I received an update of revised credit card conditions. They are now going to pass on some of the fee for transactions abroad which had hitherto been the bonus of having their credit card. I am sure NGM's Ghost will be very interested in this as it is one of his major reasons for having their card.

Old news now though Barbara as it was covered by BBC Radio 4 MoneyBox and in moneysavingexpert.com's weekly email a few weeks ago (rather fortunately perhaps as I am not very good at ploughing through pages of new terms and conditions in tiny print). Fortunately there is to be no change (at least for now) in the fee free use of Nationwide's Visa Debit and Credit Cards in the EU (or is it the European Economic Area including say Switzerland). These charges will also come in outside the EU on not just the credit card but also the debit card too. But Nationwide will still not be imposing any actual fee on top for taking the money out at a cash machine (often a flate rate £3 minimum fee with many of their competitors)

I do feel though that it is quite cynical and reprehensible for Nationwide to make this change mainly because they have lured in tens of thousands of new customers specifically on the basis that their credit and debit cards did not charge a foreign exchange rate levy in expensive tv advertising and with jibes at the opposition using the income on these cards to pay for the shareholder's bubbly. To throw all that in the bin within less than a year rather than say 5 or 10 years later does appear to me wholly unacceptable. Also I am at a loss to see why the EU is treated differently from the rest of the world when surely Visa must levy similar exchange rate fees from the Euro back to Sterling in the EU as elsewhere in the world and when surely the bulk of the spend on Nationwide's cards is actually still within the EU. Perhaps it may reflect an actual change in operating practice within the Visa group so that transactions outside Visa Europe may incur an exchange rate levy not imposed in Europe. This would still be a con but a Visa con rather than a Nationwide one. It may be rather too much to expect Nationwide to take a 1% hit for non EU card use that they could not have anticipated when they implemented their exchange rate levy free card policy. I would need to be sure of all this before I could resoundingly condemn Nationwide for their actions.

Looking at it all in the round my biggest objection when the other banks brought in "foreign exchange rate levy" was that it was never set at a reasonable rate that reflected what might be the actual exchange rate levy imposed by Visa and Mastercard but instead at a usurious level that was simply a back door way for banks to prop up their income on transactions that most customers only make occasionally so do not shop around for. It is disappointing therefore that Nationwide has brought in a 1% levy outside the EU but I suspect that is much closer to their actual costs than the other banks charging 2.65% to 2.99%. I also think the original attempt to offer totally fee free card use overseas was done on the basis that many customers would move all their banking to Nationwide. Whereas in practice I think many customers just use the Nationwide cards when they are overseas (I know that I do). Otherwise I use my Citicard Shell Visa in the UK that gives me 3% cashback off Shell petrol and 1% cashback everywhere else.

So I don't like it but I suspect there is some rationale to it, whereas the 0845 phone number move is plain outrageous when it was clearly sold them to by BT at a time when 03 numbers had already become available and so there was no excuse at all for using 0845 instead of 03. Shocked

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NGMsGhost

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #76 - Mar 16^th, 2009 at 2:29pm

The below article extracted from www.moneywise.co.uk/news-views/2009/03/04/card-providers-scrap-fee-free-overseas... shows that it is really Visa and not Nationwide who have changed the rules of the game.

For the time being the Post Office card is still fee free worldwide but I don't see how this can last in view of the introduction of the new charge by Visa, unless of course their card is a Mastercard and Mastercard have not brought in these fees for non EU use. Someone clearly needs to ask though why Visa feels entitled to now levy a 1% exchange rate fee on top of the large margin they presumably have between the rate at which they convert pounds to dollars and the one at which they exchange dollars to pounds.

You can apply for the exchange rate fee free Post Office credit card at www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/jump1?catId=19400177&mediaId=34100665

Quote:

Nationwide is to scrap its fee-free policy on foreign transactions for both its credit card and debit card VISA customers.

For some time, the building society has been one of just a handful of card providers to waive currency conversion charges when customers use their cards abroad. For this reason, its debit and credit card offerings have long been recommended to people who want to withdraw money or make purchases on plastic while abroad.

However, from 1 May Nationwide will start hitting credit card customers with a foreign exchange fee when they use their plastic outside the UK or Europe, while debit card customers have until 1 June before they have to pay this charge. It is estimated that over one million customers will be affected.

The foreign exchange fee, which is charged to card providers by VISA, is currently 0.84% but will rise to 1% in July. After this time, Nationwide customers will have to pay £1 for every £100 withdrawn or spent while outside of Europe.

In addition, Nationwide’s VISA credit card customers will also have to pay the charge if they make purchases from websites based outside of Europe.

Thomas Cook, the Post Office and Abbey, through its Zero Card, all used to waive foreign exchange fees.

However, from 18 April, Thomas Cook will start charging its customers a foreign exchange fee of 2.99% and Abbey has now withdrawn its offering.

A spokeswoman for Abbey says it has pulled the deal because, in the current economic climate, customers’ priorities have changed. It has replaced the popular deal with a new 0% balance transfer credit card and also intends to re-introduce the Zero Card in May.

Until then, only the Post Office continues to spare customers foreign transaction fees when they use it overseas.

Lynsey Hallam, a spokeswoman for Nationwide, says the decision to start passing on currency conversion fees to VISA credit and debit card customers was made in order to secure the long-term sustainability of its offerings.

She adds: “We are still one of the few providers not to charge customers commission, plus we don’t employ negative payment hierarchy so payments are used to pay off the most expensive debt first. When you look at what other providers charge customers, Nationwide continues to offer an attractive proposition.”

Credit card providers charge, on average, 2.75% per transaction when customers pay for goods and services while abroad.

Sam Owens, head of credit cards at data provider Moneyfacts, says the move by Nationwide is disappointing - especially as in the past it has heavily promoted the fee-free aspect of its cards.

However, she adds: “Unlike many providers, Nationwide is covering its costs rather than making a margin on foreign transactions. It still has a competitive offering. People who want to avoid being charged this fee should look for alternatives now – unfortunately, this market wasn’t very big in the first place and now it is getting even smaller.”

« Last Edit: Mar 16^th, 2009 at 2:32pm by NGMsGhost »

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NGMsGhost

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Nationwide Breaking The Law on 0845 Call Cost
Reply #77 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 2:59am

On Saturday I had reason to cast around and consider if it was actually worth bothering at all with an ISA in the 08/09 tax year in view of the worldwide meltdown in stocks and shares prices and the dismal rate of interest now available on most cash desposit accounts.

I started first on the Nationwide website where I was outraged to find that all of Nationwide's true Instant Access Savings acccounts (such as Esavings) and its normal ISA product with no penalties for no notice withdrawal now only pay 0.5% interest or less - even if you have £50,000 in Esavings they only pay 0.45% interest. Even NatWest Esavings pays 1%, even though NatWest have historically offered some of the lowest Esavings rates in the UK. Cheating Nationwide also now try to force you open their so called E-Savings Plus account to get a still rotten 2% per annum interest but if you make more than three withdrawals a year on this account the rate of interest is slashed to a miniscule 0.1% Shocked

Incredibly the story is the same on ISAs with ordinary ISAs that don't have a penalty for early withdrawal only paying between 0.25% and 0.5% interest with Nationwide and the only way to get 3% interest on an ISA at Nationwide is to take a 1 year ISA fixed rate bond with large penalties for taking the money out early. Nationwide don't have any true no penalty instant access accounts paying above 0.45% Shocked

I therefore first tried to call my branch to discuss this matter and especially the huge reduction in interest I would face when my one year ISA bond at 6.15% came to an end on April 5th. However when I visited the Nationwide website I found that my branch's number had been changed from the old number of 01306 651900 to 0845 266034. Despite this I tried calling 01306 651900 only to receive a recorded announcement telling me the number had changed to 0845 266034. Angry

As I currently have free 0845 and 0870 calls with www.yourcalls.net (I am about to ditch this company and move to a company that will give me a cheaper broadband and line rental package who assure me there is no chance at all of them including 0845 and 0870 calls in the foreseeable future) I reluctantly decided to call the branch on the 0845 number (still sticks in the craw due to the telecoms middleman terminating the calls who then gets a rake off) to discuss the poor interest rates but on getting through I first queried the use of an 0845 number when Nationwide had always avoided them to be told it was "a local rate call". I tried reasoning that it was not and that Nationwide were committing a criminal offence under the Consumer Protection Act 1987 ("misleading price indications") to make such a claims and were also ignoring ASA guidelines only to be told that the instruction that it was "local rate" had been given to them in branch "training" when the 01306 number was withdrawn and replaced by the 0845 Angry

I subsequently called the Nationwide Head Office "International" contact centre number of +44 1793 656789 listed on their website at www.nationwide.co.uk/contact_us/telephone_numbers/telephone_numbers.htm#general and asked why if they needed to have an "International Number" my branch did not have one. To which their reply was "why did I need to contact my branch"?! My answer was it was none of their business why I wanted to contact my branch but it could include matters such as checking how long I might have to wait to open an ISA if I came down to the branch that morning. I also said that I chose Nationwide specifically because it had many branches and because it had always made a point of making them directly contactable on normal geographic numbers. At this point I was then again assured that 0845 was "local rate" and when I challenged this she consulted with her supervisor who assured her that 0845 was "definitely local rate". When I asked where this information had come from they said it was off an "internal information system". When I asked could they tell me its name and the name of the document training staff that 0845 was "local rate" they refused to do so alleging it was confidential.

Needless to say I also did not get very far with my complaint as to why Nationwide now does not pay more than 0.5% interest unless you are willing to contract for at least a one year term with a 3 month interest penalty for early surrender. I pointed out that NatWest's Cash ISA and E-ISA both paid around 3.5% but neither had a penalty for early withdrawal of the money. The fact that the ISA allowance is lost for good if you withdraw the money is normally all the incentive that is actually needed to stop customers withdrawing their money early without good reason. They just said well that was how it was now and down to the higher powers etc and not theirs to reason why.

So in summary Nationwide's directors now offer some of the worst interest rates in the whole uk savings scene for anyone needing an instant access product and its directors are also training its staff to systematically break the law in respect of the issue of 0845 call cost by training them to provide a "misleading price indication". The fact that I regard the adoption of an 0845 number in 2009 (when 03 numbers have existed for 18 months) as outrageous is secondary to the fact that the directors are sanctioning the daily committal of large numbers of criminal offences by the Society's staff in the way the call cost of 0845 numbers is described to members.

Continued/...............

« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2009 at 3:31am by NGMsGhost »

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NGMsGhost

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Nationwide Breaking The Law on 0845 Call Cost
Reply #78 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 3:30am

Needless to say I am now absolutely furious with the complete ruination of Nationwide as a Building Society supposedly run in the interest of Members as it now seems to have been hijacked by the usual crazed big company methods merchants who have thrown in the bin all the good pro customer things with which Nationwide were formerly associated. This also of course includes their credit and debit cards no longer being completely free of the ripoff "foreign exchange rate levy" for any transactions on these cards outside the EU.

There was a very interesting item in Saturday's BBC Radio 4 Money Box program about the acquisition of the branches of Dunfermline Building Society by Nationwide and this included an interview with Matthew Wilds, executive director of Group Distribution at Nationwide. They also interviewed John Goodfellow, Chairman of the Building Societies Association. During this program a number of interesting points were made by the program's presenter Paul Lewis, including the fact that the Nationwide now had more assets than all the other Building Societies combined and him asking Ralph Silver of Tower Group if this was really in the interests of Members. Ralph Silver of course claimed Members were getting the best of both worlds. What utter tosh.

Matthew Wilds was also big on claiming that despite its enormous size there was no danger of Nationwide starting to behave like a bank or forgetting it had Members. Points were also made about Members of the Dunfermline Building Society potentially being treated as second class citizens by Nationwide. However as it now treats its own members so badly there seems precious little hope of that! A visit to www.dunfermline.com/branch-phone-listing.aspx also reveals that Dunfermline still uses geographic phone numbers for all its branches, even though it has a centralised 0845 call centre number too. One wonders how much longer these geographic branch phone numbers will now survive. The smug Mr Wilds was very big on claiming that this latest fit of corporate ego by Nationwide had no downside for Members even though the analyst interviewed, Ralph Silver, talked of another third of remaining small Building Societies all disappearing in due course (presumably mainly in to Nationwide).

In short the whole impression given is that Nationwide is now an utterly greedy corporate monster of the bad old RBS kind with directors intent only on fattening it up, presumably so that they can pay themselves ever larger salaries and bonuses and also one day become super rich when they float it off as another bank (presumably just as we get in the next economic upturn).

Listen Again to the relevant part of the BBC Money Box program from Minute 7 onwards at www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jgv1j/Money_Box_04_04_2009/

I have already taken the first steps to show my disapproval by moving my three years worth of Cash ISAs to NatWest (where they at least will get a decent interest rate without being locked down for a year if I need to access them) and will also be writing to Nationwide's ever more out of touch directors on the 0845 issue, the low interest rate for instant access accounts issue and Nationwide going back on their previous commitments to customers with respect to exchange rate fee free overseas Visa card use.

The fact that Nationwide has actually invented a corporate lie that 0845 is "local rate" when it is illegal to do so is beyond belief but no doubt reflects the Big Lie that was sold to their incompetent directors when BT or some other large greedy telco bamboozled them in to dropping their geographic numbers in favour of the great 0845 calls ripoff. Shocked

I think the way ahead now has to be for those of us who are Members of Nationwide (like myself and Barbara) who also belong to this campaign to take the time to attend Nationwide's next AGM and ask some awkward questions to their Directors and also catch them during the coffee and/or drinks session before and/or after the AGM to continue to make our voice on this matter heard. Is any other member of the forum a Nationwide member and would they be able to attend the Society's AGM held on a weekday some time in May in London?

« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2009 at 3:31am by NGMsGhost »

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Dave

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Re: Nationwide Breaking The Law on 0845 Call Cost
Reply #79 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 12:29pm

NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 7^th, 2009 at 3:30am:

I have already taken the first steps to show my disapproval by moving my three years worth of Cash ISAs to NatWest (where they at least will get a decent interest rate without being locked down for a year if I need to access them) and will also be writing to Nationwide's ever more out of touch directors on the 0845 issue, the low interest rate for instant access accounts issue and Nationwide going back on their previous commitments to customers with respect to exchange rate fee free overseas Visa card use.

The fact that Nationwide has actually invented a corporate lie that 0845 is "local rate" when it is illegal to do so is beyond belief but no doubt reflects the Big Lie that was sold to their incompetent directors when BT or some other large greedy telco bamboozled them in to dropping their geographic numbers in favour of the great 0845 calls ripoff. Shocked

I hope you will refer Nationwide directors to the following sources:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ioi/nwbnd/ntsindex/

Quote:

Committee of Advertising Practice guidance on advertising call charges for 08 numbers

Prior to July 2004, the 0845 and 0870 ranges were designated as ‘local rate’ and national rate’ in the National Telephone Numbering Plan. In July 2004, Ofcom modified the designations to reflect the fact that most callers now pay higher charges for 0845 and 0870 calls than for calls to geographic numbers. At the same time, Ofcom advised that the ‘local rate and ‘national rate’ terms may be misleading and should no longer be used to describe 0845 and 0870 call charges.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/oftel_0845/responses/leicester_cc.pdf

Quote:

Leicester TS carried out some research and came to the conclusion that describing 0845 and 0870 as ‘local rate’ and ‘national rate’, respectively was misleading within the meaning of Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987. Refer to paragraph 1.3 for more information. See also the Advice Leaflet by East Sussex Trading Standards in the Other Links section which makes reference to the same legislation.

Ofcom's 08 FAQs

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consumeradvice/landline/costofcalls/08faq/

Various adjudications from ASA and guidance from CAP:

http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1168385546/1#1

Trading Standards Institute Document 180805:

http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/business/tradingstandards/detail.aspx?ref=180805&da...

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #80 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 12:44pm

Thanks Dave. I already have most of those references (although not a couple of them) plus some more of my own.

I have made the Stage 1 complaint by phone and am awaiting the predictable fob off reply by letter. The thrust of my complaint by phone (I had the adviser read it back to me, even though he didn't want to and wanted to put it in his own words using his own misunderstanding of the matter) was centred on their advisers breaching the Consumer Protection Act 1987 by giving a "Misleading Price Indication" over 0845 call costs and the fact that Nationwide also inconsistently show "International" alternatives for their central call centres but do not offer such "International" numbers for their branches and have withdrawn the former 01/02 numbers from service (putting messages to call the 0845 number on them instead in true NEG like fashion)

When I get the fob off reply I will proceed to a detailed letter at Stage 2 setting out the full range of objections including the possible relevance of COI advice and the Varney report to a body owned by members and not a body designed to make a profit for shareholders.

I don't want to give them too many opportunities to correct their current criminal activities in the hope of making a complaint to the Financial Services Ombudsman (after reaching deadlock) and trying to get the Ombudsman to find that Nationwide are committing a criminal offence in their current 0845 call price description. I don't know how far one might get with trying to refer this to the Police. I expect they would try and dodge it without getting a series of recordings of Nationwide staff saying that 0845 was "local rate" and being told that they had been trained to say this by management. Similarly I doubt Trading Standards would take action without such firm evidence.

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Nationwide Building Society Reply #81 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 12:49pm NGMsGhost wrote on Apr 7^th, 2009 at 12:44pm: Thanks Dave. I already have most of those references (although not a couple of them) plus some more of my own. Do share these links as I would like to have them listed on Useful Links and References.
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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #82 - Apr 7^th, 2009 at 6:48pm

A search of Nationwide's website for local rate reveals some pages.

The Telephone Self Service leaflet, dated April 2008, states:

Quote:

Calls from a BT landline are charged at a local rate. Call charges from other networks, mobiles or abroad may vary.

Technically speaking, this is correct because from a BT landline, 0845 is the same as or less than a "local" call. This does not make 0845 "local rate" though.

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jimjim

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #83 - Apr 8^th, 2009 at 10:49am

I have also withdrawn all bar £10 from my Nationwide accounts, which I am keeping just to vote against the remuneration for senior management and against the auditors being re-elected at the AGM as they are all part of same cosy club.

I hope there is a choice for members to elect a non board member for election this year, but I doubt it, it will be the old boys club as usual.

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sherbert Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,011 Gender:	Re: Nationwide Building Society Reply #84 - Apr 8^th, 2009 at 10:58am If you can, it may be worthwhile keeping £100 in there, in case although it is extremely unlikely at the moment, that it gets taken over by a bank and usually from past events you get a pay out if you have over £100 in an account....just a thought.
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Barbara

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #85 - Apr 10^th, 2009 at 2:10pm

Thought this might interest other forum members/users who are also with Nationwide. Yesterday evening, I received a call from an organisation called Network Research who were conducting a survey on behalf of Nationwide into customer satisfaction with Nationwide's complaints' procedure. I had been contacted in relation to my complaint that I had had "difficulties contacting my branch". After corecting the inaccuracy of this statement & explaining it related to Nationwide's change to using 0845 (covert premium rate) numbers for their branches, I thoroughly enjoyed giving my opinions of Nationwide, its management & procedures. I was also asked had I told others about my dissatisfaction &, if so, how many. I explained that, in addition to friends & family, I had put the details on a forum which has the potential to be seen by thousands & that other members of that forum had also made complaints to Nationwide & received totally unsatisfactory responses. I am posting this in case any other members/users are contacted by Network Research at some point in the future. Anyone wishing for more details or contact details for Network Research, please PM or email me.

Happy Easter to all.

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #86 - Apr 10^th, 2009 at 2:52pm

This may be of interest about Network Research. Also nice to see a geographical number at the bottom of their page if you have any questions to put to them.

http://www.networkresearch.co.uk/contact/calledbyus.html

Mind you Barbara, I am surprised you are still a customer of Nationwide, with all the hassel you have had with them. I would have left them long ago. Indeed, I have closed nearly all of my accounts now having received such terrible service at my local branch and when I complained to their head office, I was more or less told, 'take it or leave it'. So I left. taking all my ISAs and other accounts with me!

« Last Edit: Apr 10^th, 2009 at 2:57pm by sherbert »

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #87 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 8:35pm

I'm with Nationwide and I'm not happy with 0845 numbers for branches, a practically non-existent interest rate on Cash ISA's and practically nothing back on my current account.

Just looking at MSE top accounts and both Halifax and Bank of Scotland (owned by same group but still look like their both trading independently) pay £5 net each month I pay in my wage.

I know it's just £5 but it's better than what I'm getting with Nationwide now!

Even their ISA accounts are better value than Nationwide now!

I only had a quick look and will check it out fully when I have more time.

Nationwide are going to lose customers over all this and I can see me going.

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Barbara

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #88 - Apr 14^th, 2009 at 11:09am

Hi, a word of caution about Halifax/Bank of Scotland. Talking to my daughter at the weekend, she has had endless problems with her HBOS business account (she is also a customer of Nationwide & now rates them as "rubbish"). Dealing with HBOS cost her a fortune for their mistakes, they eventually apologised for getting things wrong but no recompense, she is expected to carry the loss, never mind the stress - it's a new & struggling business therefore she doesn't have the time for time-consuming complaints at the moment. She has just switched to NatWest and been very impressed (she has used them for personal banking for years & had problems but says they are now much improved). We also went to NatWest for their instant access ISA & were also impressed with the level of customer service (eg they remembered my name when I had to ring the branch the next day!) & are now considering opening a current account with them for use as a main account (retaining the Nationwide one nominally to preserve membership). I know they use 0845 (but so do all the other banks etc), we were advised that it goes to a call centre after five rings so hang up before then & try again later but I was answered after three rings by someone who was able to deal with the query within less than two minutes.

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Re: Nationwide Building Society
Reply #89 - Apr 14^th, 2009 at 5:54pm

Barbara wrote on Apr 14^th, 2009 at 11:09am:

Hi, a word of caution about Halifax/Bank of Scotland...

Thanks for that. I will try and do some more research on their c/s. Halifax/BoS use geographicals for local branches so that along with better interest rates (and getting paid everytime my wage gets paid in is what attracted me in first place).

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