SAYNOTO0870.COM - 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police Forces

sherbert Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,011 Gender:	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #60 - May 8^th, 2011 at 12:57pm japitts wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 12:36pm: I've no problem with a 10/15p fixed-price call given all the peripheral benefits of a national-number.. . So you keep saying, but most of us here on this site do.
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japitts Junior Member Offline Posts: 62 North Bristol Gender:	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #61 - May 8^th, 2011 at 2:03pm sherbert wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 12:57pm: japitts wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 12:36pm: I've no problem with a 10/15p fixed-price call given all the peripheral benefits of a national-number.. . So you keep saying, but most of us here on this site do. As you also keep saying
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #62 - May 8^th, 2011 at 7:04pm

sherbert wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 12:57pm:

japitts wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

I've no problem with a 10/15p fixed-price call given all the peripheral benefits of a national-number.. .

So you keep saying, but most of us here on this site do.

We are right to think firstly about our personal situations. Many of us rarely have cause to call the Police and some would be happy to pay whatever is demanded if the need for contact were great enough. Those who call through BT have no problem at all with a 0845 number, indeed for some it is cheaper to call than a geographic number.

If the way forward were to be decided by considering only the interests of the majority who rarely call the Police, but fund them through their taxes, or the largest group of users taking their telephone call services from a particular provider (i.e. BT), then a rather perverse outcome could result.

The Home Office and the Police Services have to look at the situation more broadly in determining what course to follow. We may wish to apply ourselves to this debate.

Those who oppose a proposal to meet the cost of the connection (i.e. the direct costs of the telephone companies, plus a fair margin for overheads etc.) by a universal fixed charge per call to a single number covering all of England, may wish to suggest their preferred alternative.

The status quo includes a different (rarely known) number for each local service and mobile callers paying up to 41p per minute. This leads to improper pressure being placed on the emergency services, due to unnecessary calls to 999. Wider public awareness of an alternative to 999, with an equitable rate of charge, would undoubtedly relieve some of this pressure.

With efforts to use limited money more effectively being demanded, there may be savings to be made by having all incoming calls answered in call centres, possibly on a "shared service" basis. Furthermore, many would argue that spending the money necessary to make every call "free to caller" could not be justified in the present situation. The particular nature of this service, as against others, makes the inequity resulting from the many different rates that apply to calls to Geographic Rate numbers seem unacceptable. Use of a national three digit number opens up all of the possible options for funding, which do not exist otherwise.

Is the opposition to the single national number, or to the proposed method of funding? Is the status quo thought acceptable, or are there other alternatives that opponents would wish to propose? I am keen to know the answers to these questions; it is however for each of us to comment as we wish.

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Barbara

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #63 - May 9^th, 2011 at 5:16pm

In answer to the final parapgraph of SCV's last post, I would have to say my opposition is to both aspects. Firstly, on charging, I see no reason why telecos cannot be required to include 101 in all call packages, both mobile & landline, in the same way as 03 numbers must be included, this has set a precedent for the inclusion of numbers which are not geographical. The earlier post where the person says they have no problem with a charge (repeatedly, as pointed out by sherbert) ignores the fact that some people will quite legitimately have to make a considerable number of calls to the police, possibly on the same evening. To give an example, last year, when we still lived in north Essex, our village and the neighbouring one were repeatedly the victims teenage children of a particularly difficult family and their entourage. People going about their usual activities and using the village halls, recreation grounds and car parks were repeatedly targeted, abused, intimidated, threatened; the police would be called, officers (normally PCSOs with no power of arrest) would arrive, "read the riot act" and, as soon as they left, the troublemakers would be back again. This necessitated numerous repeated calls to the police from a number of residents in both villages over a period of some weeks, this would not merely have been 15p in isolation. And this in an otherwise quiet, sleepy rural area.

This brings me to my second objection. While I can see the point of a single number countrywide being of use to those outside their home area or without the local police number (all of which should of course be geo or 03 numbers!!) there is still a problem with the lack of local link which already exists. Particularly in rural areas where minor roads, lanes, fields are involved, local knowledge is indispensible & using call centres, even centralised in a police division within a force, wastes valuable time and can lead to officers wasting time hunting for an unfamiliar location. There is, of course, also the issue that locally based officers who know their "patch" & its residents are far better equipped to know where to look for troublemakers! Therefore I feel there needs to be a return to the ability to ring the local police station staffed by locally based officers with local knowledge, probably a forlorn hope but policing will never be as good as it should be without this link.

This summarises my objection to 101 as currently proposed both in format and cost.

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idb

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #64 - May 9^th, 2011 at 11:38pm

SilentCallsVictim wrote on May 4^th, 2011 at 4:42pm:

idb wrote on May 4^th, 2011 at 3:49pm:

SilentCallsVictim wrote on May 4^th, 2011 at 2:59pm:

I trust that appropriate arrangements will be made for handling calls from overseas, as well as those to specific incident rooms and to local services remote from the caller.

One would hope so, however, on the assumption that either a geographic or 03 number is provided for such situations, then this number will be used (quite correctly, in my opinion) by UK residents wishing to avoid the charge for 101. Similar situations prevail for other organizations discussed here.

I would clearly not be appropriate for a single 01/02/03 alternative with the same features and facilities of 101 to be provided. I would be see this as being an improper expense, given the decision that has been made about how the service should be provided and funded.

It would be wholly appropriate to have an alternative with identical facilities if there was no desire to have the call charged at a new flat rate that is outside of any calling plan. The caller would then have a choice.

Whilst having a short, easy to remember number has tangible benefits, some of which are discussed earlier in this thread, we appear to have yet another mess with respect to the charging aspect of calls to such a number. It is probable that some, perhaps not all, geographic numbers would be withdrawn, or at least hidden from the public, should 101 be introduced. One can reasonably conclude that the introduction of a flat fee, excluded from calling plans, is designed either to fund or partially fund the system, or to generate revenue/profit for one or more parties.

The point I continually make here is that 'we' expect to have calling plans, whether we pay $20, GBP 20 or EUR 20 per month, we expect to be able to make regular calls, excepting PRS and some others, to a range of individuals, businesses and service providers without incurring any additional charges. This is, generally, the case here in the US. In the UK, many 'regular' calls are excluded from bundles, and the 101 number appears to be introduced along similar excluded lines (please correct me if my assertion is wrong).

I would not advocate 101 to be free, just charged at the prevailing regular rate for a geographic number, included in any plans as appropriate.

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Barbara Supreme Member Offline Posts: 598	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #65 - May 10^th, 2011 at 1:03pm idb, I agree absolutely.
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sherbert Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,011 Gender:	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #66 - May 10^th, 2011 at 7:22pm Barbara wrote on May 10^th, 2011 at 1:03pm: idb, I agree absolutely. .....and me
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4PetesSake

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #67 - May 10^th, 2011 at 10:39pm

japitts wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 12:36pm:

4PetesSake wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

If it is not broken then it does not need fixing.

We can contact the Police now for free if we have an all inclusive call package. Therefore it does not make any sense to introduce a new number costing 10p, now increased by 50% to 15p per call.

Not all forces you can't. Avon & Somerset being a case in point.

4PetesSake wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

On principle I will never call 101, but will email them via the, "Contact Us" link on their website and leave my mobile number. They can then phone me at a cost of 20p+ (BT connection Fee and call time) and put money onto their phone bill.

I've no problem with a 10/15p fixed-price call given all the peripheral benefits of a national-number.. seems like penny-pinching to me. But I certainly wouldn't call Plod on an 0845 - indeed "contact us" is the way to go. The only problem will ever come, if what you need to call them about isn't an emergency but is time critical. Oh well - they should have thought of that before having an 0845 number.

My sympathies, That is really tough on you. It is amazing that no one from you area has yet found out what the Geo alternative is. I guess in your case a fixed fee will be better. I can really understand you using the contact us link on their website. Here in Northants we are fortunate enough to have an 03000 number.

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4PetesSake

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #68 - May 10^th, 2011 at 10:45pm

Dave wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 10:36pm:

4PetesSake wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 10:30pm:

Heinz wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 7:22pm:

4PetesSake wrote on May 7^th, 2011 at 2:43pm:

On principle I will never call 101, but will email them via the, "Contact Us" link on their website and leave my mobile number. They can then phone me at a cost of 20p+ (BT connection Fee and call time) and put money onto their phone bill.

Ultimately, of course, paid from (y)our taxes.

My council tax has been frozen this year and the Police are having to make savings in other areas in order to pay for their 101 number. Threrefore I am not paying any extra. Grin

Not in council tax, maybe. But expect more crime. Or perhaps you're a burglar, and so will be set to benefit. Roll Eyes

I am sure the cutbacks will inevitably lead to more crime as Police Officers who retire are not being replaced. The Government has made a big mistake in savagely cutting the Police at a time like this. Our Force had a record reduction in crime last year but unfortunately I think that trend is about to turn.

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4PetesSake

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #69 - May 10^th, 2011 at 10:56pm

Barbara wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 5:16pm:

While I can see the point of a single number countrywide being of use to those outside their home area or without the local police number (all of which should of course be geo or 03 numbers!!) there is still a problem with the lack of local link which already exists. Particularly in rural areas where minor roads, lanes, fields are involved, local knowledge is indispensible & using call centres, even centralised in a police division within a force, wastes valuable time and can lead to officers wasting time hunting for an unfamiliar location. There is, of course, also the issue that locally based officers who know their "patch" & its residents are far better equipped to know where to look for troublemakers! Therefore I feel there needs to be a return to the ability to ring the local police station staffed by locally based officers with local knowledge, probably a forlorn hope but policing will never be as good as it should be without this link.

Our local village Police Station still has an external phone number which most villagers know, I am also aware of other Rural Stations where this is the case in a neighbouring Force, so there is still hope.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #70 - May 11^th, 2011 at 12:59am

idb wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 11:38pm:

It would be wholly appropriate to have an alternative with identical facilities if there was no desire to have the call charged at a new flat rate that is outside of any calling plan. The caller would then have a choice.

idb

Please forgive me, I am keen to respond, but I do not follow your point.

The "desire to have the call charged at a new flat rate that is outside of any calling plan" is what is being realised, it has got past the point of being only a desire. You seem to be saying that this desire denies the possibility of an alternative number to access the service. You go on to say that thereby the caller would then have a "choice".

I am not clear on what is the "choice" to which you refer, as you appear to be ruling out an alternative number in this case!

You do not say in what particular circumstances it would be appropriate to have an alternative with identical facilities, although you seem to suggest that there could be such, i.e. if there were no desire to have the call charged at a flat rate ...

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idb

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Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For
Reply #71 - May 11^th, 2011 at 3:40am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on May 11^th, 2011 at 12:59am:

idb wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 11:38pm:

It would be wholly appropriate to have an alternative with identical facilities if there was no desire to have the call charged at a new flat rate that is outside of any calling plan. The caller would then have a choice.

idb

Please forgive me, I am keen to respond, but I do not follow your point.

Didn't believe that it was overtly complex, but I'll try again. You stated that it would "not be appropriate for a single 01/02/03 alternative(*) with the same features and facilities of 101 to be provided". I am responding that it would be appropriate if the charge was geographic rather than an excluded and additional fixed fee.

(*) Perhaps the area of misunderstanding relates to not explicitly defining what is meant by alternative. In this context, and from my perspective, I am using alternative to mean a simultaneous geographic number, principally for internationally-originated traffic, operating in parallel with 101.

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SilentCallsVictim Supreme Member Offline aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms Posts: 2,494	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #72 - Jul 4^th, 2011 at 10:13pm The re-launch of 101 has begun today with a price increase.
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loddon Supreme Member Offline Posts: 599 Reading UK Gender:	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #73 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 7:56am SilentCallsVictim wrote on Jul 4^th, 2011 at 10:13pm: The re-launch of 101 has begun today with a price increase. Where? Can you provide a link to the announcement?
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allegro Senior Member Offline Posts: 335	Re: 101 - New Non-Emergency No. for ALL Police For Reply #74 - Jul 5^th, 2011 at 8:04am GIYF http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/around-yorkshire/local-stories/101_number_ch...
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